tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post2153210170655084430..comments2024-03-28T21:46:15.727+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: 2nd Edition: The Friendship EditionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-72039763839958714972019-01-29T14:21:16.112+08:002019-01-29T14:21:16.112+08:00Check out Brandon Sanderson friendship and loyalty...Check out Brandon Sanderson friendship and loyalty aboundRandom Wookiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12622399862802851126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-33374537388653740732019-01-16T07:34:50.958+08:002019-01-16T07:34:50.958+08:00Cf Against The Wicked City - "this is a game ...Cf Against The Wicked City - "this is a game about love"Owen Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02033345001593862263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-90689282348021546252019-01-11T08:31:03.129+08:002019-01-11T08:31:03.129+08:00Fair enough. I might also be looking back through ...Fair enough. I might also be looking back through the rose-tinted glasses of my more imaginative youth. Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-38170952077792247242019-01-11T07:22:49.565+08:002019-01-11T07:22:49.565+08:00Yes, perhaps. I was a Dragon Magazine junkie aswer...Yes, perhaps. I was a Dragon Magazine junkie aswere my friends. Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-45633527101208864512019-01-11T06:49:10.108+08:002019-01-11T06:49:10.108+08:00I don't remember the marketing being like that...I don't remember the marketing being like that, and we never used pregenerated modules. I think you might be projecting a bit. This is what the Player's Handbook said:<br /><br />Adventure modules contain complete game adventures. These are especially useful for DMs who aren’t sure how to create their own adventures and for DMs who need an adventure quickly and don’t have time to write one of their ownIvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-51579448511921280482019-01-11T02:33:14.061+08:002019-01-11T02:33:14.061+08:00AD&D2e does have an alarmingly sunny aesthetic...AD&D2e does have an alarmingly sunny aesthetic, just flipping through the player's handbook (one of my players, an elder of 47, happened to have it on his shelf and loaned it to me to gawp at for a weekend). While not very oh ehss arrgh, that does have its advantages. Here in America a lot of our universally known modern myths feature a man in cape and underpants or John Wayne creating a universe of archetypes (the gangster; the mad scientist; the callow would-be hero; the hooker with a heart of gold;) sort of radiating out from the central "Lawful Good" character. When you're trying to convey A WORLD to five guys at a table not necessarily of literary bent and giving you half their attention, this appeal to our modern mythos of comic books, horse operas and Lord of the Rings can achieve a lot of the heavy lifting, esp. if you hope your players will latch some kind of real attachment to the fiction--if they can perceive the thing opposing them not as a block of hitpoints but as Lex Luthor or Lee Van Cleef, fine.Stitch Seamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02493128814546844907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-8686275761773034052019-01-11T02:21:45.653+08:002019-01-11T02:21:45.653+08:00Your post made me go and flip through my 2E books....Your post made me go and flip through my 2E books. <br /><br />For the most part, I do NOT see a lot of "buddy-buddy" in the artwork, though it's definitely in the fiction/novels of the era.<br /><br />That being said, despite any shortcomings of the edition itself, I find the interior color plates of this edition to be my favorite of ALL the editions. For me, 2E was the high water mark for color art in D&D (except for the damn, stupid covers). <br /><br />[and FWIW, the interior illustrations in Mentzer's Expert and Companion sets are my favorite in the "black and white" category...sorry Erol]JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-4027626941228478152019-01-11T01:56:09.997+08:002019-01-11T01:56:09.997+08:00The last election drove about 20% of us completely...The last election drove about 20% of us completely insane, and that is inclusive of the entire media. Most folks are fine but there’s an edge underlying public discourse. Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-25709941308339163512019-01-11T01:55:03.819+08:002019-01-11T01:55:03.819+08:00The backwards-compatibility of 2nd edition is very...The backwards-compatibility of 2nd edition is very much to its designers' credit I think.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-86480366911525623192019-01-11T01:53:41.945+08:002019-01-11T01:53:41.945+08:00These days, fantasy books in which the main charac...These days, fantasy books in which the main characters are friends and loyal to each other are almost counter-cultural.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-7206189001491010292019-01-11T01:51:26.781+08:002019-01-11T01:51:26.781+08:00It seems over in the US you've taken that prob...It seems over in the US you've taken that problem to another level.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-47263018945403724502019-01-11T01:29:42.207+08:002019-01-11T01:29:42.207+08:00The marketing and presentation of the era was that...The marketing and presentation of the era was that if you weren’t using official products then you were doing it wrong, so the modules did go hand in hand with playing 2e. <br /><br />That said, the system was fine. Good, even. It cleaned up 1e very nicely at the expense of 1e’s charming character. Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-51473985365077133002019-01-11T01:26:02.781+08:002019-01-11T01:26:02.781+08:00You are right - I meant the support material. The ...You are right - I meant the support material. The rules are fine, and hold up well.Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-17569426812256080032019-01-11T00:09:01.178+08:002019-01-11T00:09:01.178+08:00I'm not sure your complaints about bad adventu...I'm not sure your complaints about bad adventure modules suggest that the actual *edition* "plays like dogshit." IME it's pretty indistinguishable from AD&D from a play standpoint. (THACO instead of tables, oh my!)Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-70229401708183937522019-01-10T23:58:09.714+08:002019-01-10T23:58:09.714+08:00Priestly spheres is my second favorite thing about...Priestly spheres is my second favorite thing about 2e; the first being the wonderful Monstrous Manual, arguably the best monster book ever published for D&D by its parent company. It's my go-to book when I need inspiration for my games.<br /><br />2e birthed my first "great" campaign and was the cornerstone of all my gaming from '90 through to 2009. Yeah, it has its warts, but it can be made to sing with the right touch, and its compatibility with nearly everything written during the TSR-era of the game goes far to patch the rough spots.trollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-38068168561207294632019-01-10T18:53:55.247+08:002019-01-10T18:53:55.247+08:00+1+1Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-28392341511835540962019-01-10T18:08:48.362+08:002019-01-10T18:08:48.362+08:00I've only played 1st and 2nd editions of AD&am...I've only played 1st and 2nd editions of AD&D but we did like 2nd edition better. We especially liked how the priestly spheres of spells enabled us to create colourful priestly characters, whereas the previous 'clerics' were all basically the same.賈尼https://www.blogger.com/profile/03207671300903490067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-70370884940003899392019-01-10T17:49:39.885+08:002019-01-10T17:49:39.885+08:00It is a perfectly fine D&D edition... until yo...It is a perfectly fine D&D edition... until you figure out the previous ones were much better, and you have been cheated. (Which was my experience.) It is the support that stinks. I don't claim this as a matter of aesthetics, even if I like the old stuff much better, warts and all. High Fantasy Trilogies were popular, and Dragonlance and FR junk sold like hotcakes. TSR was just following the money, which it had the right to.<br /><br />But they did terrible things with the generic AD&D line, the meat and potatoes of D&D. The early 1990s AD&D modules are not simply a poor man's version of the TSR classics - that could be forgiven. They are actively bad for a campaign in a way even weaker post-2000 old-school modules aren't. The GA (General Adventures) line is an atrocity; the example adventure in the GM's screen is a railroaded, stupid mess; the intro adventure in the Forgotten Realms set is downright insulting. And if you read ten issues' worth of Bryce's Dungeon magazine reviews (the man suffered for all of us), you will see they mostly encouraged bad practice among their freelancers, too. Everywhere you reach, you are bound to reach into crap.<br /><br />That's the main problem with 2nd edition, not the lack of grime. It plays like dogshit and actively gives you advice which is likewise dogshit.Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-84411492036627978972019-01-10T16:18:25.108+08:002019-01-10T16:18:25.108+08:00You could argue that the design goals, of keeping ...You could argue that the design goals, of keeping the same basic game as AD&D while changing mostly in the direction of character customization, are part of the same parcel -- don't shake things up too much for the older players while making things more attractive for people who know other RPGs.<br /><br />And let it not be forgot that backlash from the Satanic Panic, most obviously seen in the reskinning of demons and devils, probably contributed to the friendlier face of 2e.Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-29409284974668866482019-01-10T10:12:32.903+08:002019-01-10T10:12:32.903+08:00D&D with love, loyalty, tolerance, and coopera...D&D with love, loyalty, tolerance, and cooperation? Now you have my attention.mjuliushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09710248588764690217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-15708063362312247222019-01-10T08:15:12.013+08:002019-01-10T08:15:12.013+08:00Two more: Baldur's Gate.Two more: Baldur's Gate.John Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06522143715905888511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-65983812611138878592019-01-10T07:50:59.976+08:002019-01-10T07:50:59.976+08:00Two words that make 2nd edition awesome: Dark Sun...Two words that make 2nd edition awesome: Dark Sun.Will Arnoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03698278637449036933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-88347861505367147302019-01-10T07:22:12.397+08:002019-01-10T07:22:12.397+08:00That is my favorite piece of RPG art of all time. ...That is my favorite piece of RPG art of all time. Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-42663138508653144732019-01-10T06:52:22.614+08:002019-01-10T06:52:22.614+08:00Thank you for that post. I've never understood...Thank you for that post. I've never understood why I keep being so enamored with 2nd edition, but now that I've read your article it suddenly makes perfect sense, even with your mocking remark about 2E being "Tolkien-derivative kitsch". if I think about it, "Friendship and the loyalty of the group" is the main reason I love LotR so much. And yes, it might also be the reason why I like Shannara, the Rob Salvatore books, the Wheel of Time novels and so on, even when everyone else is talking those things down pretty much all the time. And as you pointed out, 2nd edition fits very well into my preferences.Wormys_Queuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08684067668161259645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-58172310660244798612019-01-10T05:52:38.341+08:002019-01-10T05:52:38.341+08:00That’s a very good thesis. Thank you for talking a...That’s a very good thesis. Thank you for talking about it. It’s so hard these days because there are certain topics that are just off limits. It prevents people from really getting to know each other. I can’t inagine being a cop with a new partner these days. Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.com