tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post2849993356247760011..comments2024-03-29T06:16:21.012+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: A Lot of RPG Books Are Too ExpensiveUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-55133899795929459002019-08-24T10:36:01.738+08:002019-08-24T10:36:01.738+08:00... in 2017 dollars, that is. http://www.in2013dol...... in 2017 dollars, that is. http://www.in2013dollars.com/1974-dollars-in-2017?amount=10Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-51987849359818350822019-08-24T10:35:17.715+08:002019-08-24T10:35:17.715+08:00This complaint is as old as the hobby: OD&D wa...This complaint is as old as the hobby: OD&D was 3 little pamphlets in a box for $50...Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-40235828603783028192019-08-18T00:05:39.693+08:002019-08-18T00:05:39.693+08:00I have a proposal that might help a very little bi...I have a proposal that might help a very little bit — we could have an annual prize for the best RPG product with modest production values. A little more here — https://mhuthulan.mediumquality.uk/2019/08/17/idea-a-prize-for-the-best-rpg-product-with-modest-production-values/Rob Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06382136438003995340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-13788173169001241242019-08-16T12:55:33.321+08:002019-08-16T12:55:33.321+08:00Your kickstarter example is certainly better than ...Your kickstarter example is certainly better than my sexual harassment one, which was perhaps *too* stark (but it was a real one). <br /><br />I think the reason why it feels a bit like vaguebooking to me (and the use of the word "feel" is deliberate here, this isn't a measurable thing) is because the number of authors who are publishing expensive indie RPG books is somewhat small, especially if we consider the narrower subset of the OSR/OSR-related authors. So the narrower the scope, the more pointed it feelsAncalagon_TBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602961033235852856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-9304722599091275652019-08-15T23:16:11.046+08:002019-08-15T23:16:11.046+08:00Just to add a data point -- it did not occur to me...Just to add a data point -- it did not occur to me that noisms might here be referring to any specific product. I do not view commentary on general economic trends (even in a very niche industry) as "vaguebooking" at all because there is no reason to think it is directed at any specific person. <br /><br />I would view vaguebooking as posts that are deliberately vague *and seem to be begging for followup questions about who or what exactly is being referred to*.<br /><br />"Won't name names, but I can't believe that scumbag is doing another kickstarter after what he did last time."<br /><br />That sort of thing. Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-65473820866841682562019-08-15T21:38:15.754+08:002019-08-15T21:38:15.754+08:00I don't really agree it's the same thing -...I don't really agree it's the same thing - sexual harassment is a crime. <br /><br />The pricing of books, though, is an entirely subjective thing, so that if I think product X is overpriced, other people may legitimately disagree, or think that product Y is overpriced whereas I don't. If I single people or products out, all it does is generate argument about those specific people and products, which isn't fair on them and feels accusatory. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-86901281500767875092019-08-15T20:18:11.310+08:002019-08-15T20:18:11.310+08:00It can certainly feel polite when doing it - and I...It can certainly feel polite when doing it - and I say that because I've done it too. You are highlighting a real problem without targeting anyone specific, it feels like the polite thing to do.<br /><br />But it doesn't work on the internet! I realized this a few years ago in a somewhat similar situation, but instead of being something relatively benign, it was someone talking about sexual harassment. I was *certain* I knew who the poster was talking about... but no, it turned out to be someone else entirely. Had I not made some inquiries, I would have believed that person A was a serial sexual harasser, when it wasn't them all along.<br /><br />So again acknowledging that this is for far less a serious a problem, and also acknowledging that I am sure you did so with good intentions, this was not polite. Vaguebooking might feel polite, but instead it can lead several readers to think you are talking about person A, B, C, D etc, when in reality you only had E and J in mind all along.Ancalagon_TBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602961033235852856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-26510464713253095772019-08-15T19:32:22.887+08:002019-08-15T19:32:22.887+08:00That is true actually.That is true actually.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-33031142677450486822019-08-15T19:32:01.605+08:002019-08-15T19:32:01.605+08:00Well, I don't know about that - it beats watch...Well, I don't know about that - it beats watching TV.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-73402873644468477092019-08-15T19:31:26.855+08:002019-08-15T19:31:26.855+08:00Some would call it "vaguebooking" - mayb...Some would call it "vaguebooking" - maybe I'm old fashioned, but I would call it politeness!<br /><br />I don't follow Skerples' blog so I have no idea what the product in question is. This is the first I've heard of it.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-30524381545700762562019-08-15T19:30:17.890+08:002019-08-15T19:30:17.890+08:00Yep, without a doubt - that's a very important...Yep, without a doubt - that's a very important point.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-48448550308273073632019-08-15T13:27:21.028+08:002019-08-15T13:27:21.028+08:00I make everything free. Maybe I should PWYW so peo...I make everything free. Maybe I should PWYW so people think there is more value to what I make?Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-82829935809680185872019-08-15T13:24:06.363+08:002019-08-15T13:24:06.363+08:00Yes, lavish $50 hardcovers are everywhere as of la...Yes, lavish $50 hardcovers are everywhere as of late. But within the last few years zines have become quite popular in the OSR scene--look around at mothership, ultans door, echoes from fomalhaut, as well as the recent infatuation with the pamphlet format in the general OSR scene. Zines are (except for some misguided outliers) cheap and have a remarkably low barrier to entry. Seems to me like physical rpg books that are "inexpensive and heavy on substance" exist in the zine format, and are simply developing concurrently with the 50-buck-hardback model.Philippe Ricardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775005621008970082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-75080144384061284802019-08-15T13:15:19.215+08:002019-08-15T13:15:19.215+08:00That is a problem with your post - we don't kn...That is a problem with your post - we don't know who you are talking about, so it could be *anyone*. By trying not to single anyone out, several authors wonder if they are the intended target. There is a term for it - "vaguebooking". I've seen it several times, and it's not helpful (although it's usually for things a lot worse than selling a book for too much money, so this is a pretty small case). <br /><br />The anonymous poster above makes clear reference to that product by Skerples. Ancalagon_TBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602961033235852856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-44470351625288641362019-08-15T00:46:10.731+08:002019-08-15T00:46:10.731+08:00You're probably right, but tread lightly bring...You're probably right, but tread lightly bringing "sanity" or too much economic rationality into the discussion. Because from a hardcore "is this a good use of time/money" perspective, you'll end up not elfgaming at all, and who wants that?John Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02572341050529523488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-58444993148603247832019-08-14T22:31:32.945+08:002019-08-14T22:31:32.945+08:00I get that print runs are way more profitable than...I get that print runs are way more profitable than PoD. <br /><br />But I also wonder about DTRPG having a malign influence here. They take 30% of sales on PDFs. Payhip takes, I think, 3%. Squarespace takes even less if I recall correctly. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-28566449945319193172019-08-14T22:29:54.561+08:002019-08-14T22:29:54.561+08:00Must be a coincidence - I have no idea what produc...Must be a coincidence - I have no idea what product you're referring to.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-42931803695418514082019-08-14T22:29:33.348+08:002019-08-14T22:29:33.348+08:00I sort of feel like the people who are "only&...I sort of feel like the people who are "only" $10 or $20 interested in this Cool New Thing are really the sane ones... Maybe I will get in trouble for saying that.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-76196783628383938492019-08-14T09:04:33.685+08:002019-08-14T09:04:33.685+08:00Said book is also available as a PDF...
… and the...Said book is also available as a PDF...<br /><br />… and the timing of Noism's post is... perhaps unfortunate. It's just a coincidence, or is it? Ancalagon_TBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602961033235852856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-80848539151885888372019-08-14T08:59:39.485+08:002019-08-14T08:59:39.485+08:00The art can also be a barrier for would be writers...The art can also be a barrier for would be writers who have no (visual) artistic talent and lack the mean to hire a proper artist. Ancalagon_TBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602961033235852856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-89879063540421769842019-08-14T03:12:22.541+08:002019-08-14T03:12:22.541+08:00Gotcha. I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. Gotcha. I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-10039574921569545202019-08-14T02:07:03.005+08:002019-08-14T02:07:03.005+08:00I meant opportunity cost in the sense that if ever...I meant opportunity cost in the sense that if everybody is trying to be the next big thing and become an OSR pro or whatever, that's less energy being spent on the free, hobby side of things.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-31918942870908312292019-08-14T01:49:54.850+08:002019-08-14T01:49:54.850+08:00Economically, there is the LOTFP diehard fanboy mo...Economically, there is the LOTFP diehard fanboy model, and the download-my-cool-thing GLOG model. John Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02572341050529523488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-53368799101948346592019-08-14T01:48:43.354+08:002019-08-14T01:48:43.354+08:00I get what you're saying, and I do haunt the c...I get what you're saying, and I do haunt the clearance rack at my FLGS for things I'm not willing to pay list price for (Pathfinder 2 playtest, for example). <br /><br />But making up numbers, let's say the cost-to-produce for the book is $15. Selling that book once for $30 gives you just as much profit as selling it 3 times for $20. I don't think there are 3x the sales at a lower price point. <br />The creators are catering to loyal, free-spending audiences. "Yes, I want this Cowboys, Conjurers and Kamikazes game to exist, and I'll pay $50 to kickstart a book. Autographed copy and a screened t-shirt of the cover for $100? Sure, let me hint to my wife/husband and leave the tab open on his/her laptop for my birthday/Christmas/whatever. And then I'll share the kickstarter on Facebook because all my gamer friends need this game on our shelves."<br />If you're only $10 interested, or $20 interested in this Cool New Thing, you're not the relevant market. John Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02572341050529523488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-53313059089653994302019-08-14T01:22:58.935+08:002019-08-14T01:22:58.935+08:00I mean. I guess what I'm trying to say is that...I mean. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while money matters to a lot of people, there is room to operate - a surprising amount of freedom - if you set your course by other standards.HDAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506175636615989219noreply@blogger.com