tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post8345736202844656758..comments2024-03-29T06:16:21.012+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Deliberate RPG Rulebook SassUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-78278109446836001442014-08-10T00:58:18.097+08:002014-08-10T00:58:18.097+08:00Thanks for commenting and clarifying. I like Mythe...Thanks for commenting and clarifying. I like Mythender as a game (just need to get my hands on a billion more d6s...) - it's just the tone isn't to my taste. But there's no accounting for that, as they say. Interested to see what you come up with for your horror game. It's the hardest genre to pull off. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-49467253072601428452014-08-07T14:35:25.879+08:002014-08-07T14:35:25.879+08:00I also find it *super* fascinating that you'd ...I also find it *super* fascinating that you'd call it a "tough guy" stance. It's always interesting to find out how people are reading a book. When I say, in personal, "Go do that already!" it's with an encouraging smile. But short of narrating the book over YouTube, you can't always convey tone. Or put emoticons in books, maybe. A writer's voice is a very tricky thing.<br /><br />I see two versions of the same concept: "swearing with the reader" and "swearing at the reader." (Not just with foul language, but it's where it gets most illustrative.) And the more I make books, the more I try to hear what the writer sounds like before I assume the latter. But that's a luxury, and not one that lends itself to first impressions. I have similar issues with Apocalypse World that you do, because it reads too much like it's punching the reader down.<br /><br />I've had a number of people who have told me (or just commented in the Internet) about Mythender's tone. It's totally a fair cop. I respect that -- after all, language is this weird beast, especially current-day English. Not every game is for everyone, and the sooner a book can help you self-select where you are in relation to it, the better. Especially if I'm also going to ask you to get that many dice and stuff to play my game.<br /><br />So I guess this is a response to your plea: understand that as writers, we're not just talking to one person in the audience. For every single person that I've seen complain about minor text quibbles, I've had a dozen thank me for the book and said they enjoyed reading it. If the ratio went the other way, I would regret how I wrote it. And given that my game was free, there's a large degree to which I'll throw marketing concerns aside.<br /><br />(All said, that's not my only writer voice. I'm playing around with a horror game right now where the voice is serious and morose, not the esprit-de-corps call to action that I went for in Mythender.)Ryan Macklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00067447290232763272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-69712016589532589572014-08-07T14:15:22.513+08:002014-08-07T14:15:22.513+08:00My first draft of Mythender was boring as shit. Ap...My first draft of Mythender was boring as shit. Apparently a small number of people would prefer it that way, but I certainly didn't in writing it. ;)<br /><br />In any case, it's also self-selecting. If that's a tone a reader wouldn't like, I would rather they put down a game they would also probably not like and go get one they would. So it's a useful, if unobvious, tool.Ryan Macklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00067447290232763272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-61982406821204719732014-07-23T04:12:00.776+08:002014-07-23T04:12:00.776+08:00Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was...Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was actually thinking of talking about Pondsmith in the post, but thought that might dilute the message. I think his tone is more or less perfect for Cyberpunk 2020. Actually in the first episode of <a href="http://agamingpodcastaboutnothing.blogspot.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">A Gaming Podcast About Nothing</a> I talked about his tone a little bit - I really like the way it manages to achieve genre mood while not taking itself too seriously. I recognise that Vincent Baker and to a lesser extent Ryan Macklin may have been going for the same thing, but it just doesn't ring true to me and comes across as hectoring. John Wick is another matter - I've never read a book by him in which he doesn't comes across as a smug and rather patronising person, full of snide remarks about systems he doesn't like, although this may not be at all a reflection of his real personality. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-68545179613019205342014-07-23T04:07:36.689+08:002014-07-23T04:07:36.689+08:00True, but I'm just putting out there the kind ...True, but I'm just putting out there the kind of thing that tempts me to shut a book and walk away if the designer does it. Designers can take that or leave it! ;)noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-5824031756536043322014-07-23T00:54:02.737+08:002014-07-23T00:54:02.737+08:00I'm a little surprised that you're so put ...I'm a little surprised that you're so put off by this sort of language, knowing your fondness for <b>Cyberpunk 2020</b>, the progenitor of sassy RPG tone. I mean, the book of GM advice was called <i>Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!</i> fer Chrissakes.<br /><br />Of course, as I'm sure you're already thinking, Pondsmith's sassy tone was leavened by somehow feeling inclusive, like you were being inducted into Edgerunner culture rather than being lectured to.<br /><br />So maybe we don't need a plea for less sass (I do like a distinct authorial voice, after all), but for writers to go back and study the masters a little more closely and learn how to not come across like smug assholes. ;)David Larkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04133630988557116729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-76866032306006061902014-07-22T22:38:19.279+08:002014-07-22T22:38:19.279+08:00I'm the first person to feel put off by that p...I'm the first person to feel put off by that particular type of hobbyist RPGer who fills their content with that species of smarm and "machismo." It almost smacks of something written by someone who is "ashamed" of the fact that they roleplay, and therefore wants to make the hobby seem "tougher" and grittier. Some people slather their lives and works with a heavy syrup of sarcasm, and I really don't like that sort of approach to gaming and life. <br /><br />However I feel about that sort of tone, however, I see how there might be some people out there that want versions of the D&D rules (or games with D&D DNA) that support an "in your face" style of play. We live in the post-OGL world, where one can present the rules in one's desired package. It's an exciting time, and it spawns games such as the ones referenced above, as well as offerings like LotFP, Carcosa, etc. And I say, vive le difference! No matter how unfortunate or unnecesary I see the sort of attitude ("METAL!") espoused in the aforementioned products. <br /><br />Even in the case of rule sets that don't really resemble D&D mechanically all that much, there's going to be all sorts of experimentation to "differentiate" from D&D's legacy. And while we might not agree with the tone of the content, we can easily shut the book and walk away.Anthony Simeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312134763577949405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-75205898176509996022014-07-22T17:59:02.881+08:002014-07-22T17:59:02.881+08:00"Not so here" is, I agree, a little prig..."Not so here" is, I agree, a little priggish. Translated into Gygaxian it would be "Not so herein!", which would be no less smug but much more entertaining.ClawCarverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236809815213343281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-81156040095607886772014-07-22T13:36:55.995+08:002014-07-22T13:36:55.995+08:00I don't know. I think it depends on who or wha...I don't know. I think it depends on who or what the sass is aimed at, and whether or not it includes enough self-deprecation (or some other moderating thing) to convince you that the author isn't a jerk. I think James Raggi pulls it off in LOTFP, for example, though some might disagree. I know nothing about Mythender or its author, but reading that first paragraph makes me want to take a shower.Oakes Spaldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-92032572431510790562014-07-22T04:55:22.621+08:002014-07-22T04:55:22.621+08:00The guy from Dragonstrike is the sassiest.The guy from Dragonstrike is the sassiest.Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.com