tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post2453687624807142787..comments2024-03-29T06:16:21.012+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Further Questions Regarding D&D MoviesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-80268725579831930582022-08-23T04:52:56.029+08:002022-08-23T04:52:56.029+08:00As a native German speaker who read Momo as a chil...As a native German speaker who read Momo as a child and still hold it dear to my heart, this brings back memories. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-81130986779654946042022-08-15T22:45:44.887+08:002022-08-15T22:45:44.887+08:00"It's difficult now to remember, but prio..."It's difficult now to remember, but prior to Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring, the landscape of fantasy film-making was an absolute ocean of cringeworthiness"<br />Of course it's difficult to remember something that is manifestly wrong :P<br />Cringeworthiness of the Jackson's "work" aside, there were good fantasy movies before it flopped on the genre - Labyrinth comes to mind.. ;))<br />As for the question - why would you expect for an industry which becomes worse by the year to produce some good movies specifically for D&D? Nobody promised you miracles...<br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-43283631183298622652022-08-08T14:32:44.186+08:002022-08-08T14:32:44.186+08:00This quote by Momo's friend Beppo Straßenkehre...This quote by Momo's friend Beppo Straßenkehrer, one of the few adults who gets it, is something I remind myself of often. It's also where I learnt that in German, you don't need an adjective to "be silent", the is a verb for it "schweigen". I often wonder what effect it has on the psyche that, for Germans, silence is an activity rather than a state of being.<br /><br />Here's the quote:<br /><br />"You see, Momo,' he [Beppo Roadsweeper] told her one day, 'it's like this. Sometimes, when you've a very long street ahead of you, you think how terribly long it is and feel sure you'll never get it swept.'<br />He gazed silently into space before continuing. 'And then you start to hurry,' he went on. 'You work faster and faster, and every time you look up there seems to be just as much left to sweep as before, and you try even harder, and you panic, and in the end you're out of breath and have to stop - and still the street stretches away in front of you. That's not the way to do it.'<br />He pondered a while. Then he said, 'You must never think of the whole street at once, understand? You must only concentrate on the next step, the next breath, the next stroke of the broom, and the next, and the next. Nothing else.'<br />Again he paused for thought before adding, 'That way you enjoy your work, which is important, because then you make a good job of it. And that's how it ought to be.'<br />There was another long silence. At last he went on, 'And all at once, before you know it, you find you've swept the whole street clean, bit by bit. What's more, you aren't out of breath.' He nodded to himself. 'That's important, too,' he concluded."dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-21749528609351816262022-08-08T14:24:18.897+08:002022-08-08T14:24:18.897+08:00Yes, what a book! Another of Michael Ende's bo...Yes, what a book! Another of Michael Ende's books, Momo, is one of my absolute favourite books ever. Although a children's book a former Swedish (I think) prime-minister once said it's a book that every adult should be required to read - it's subject matter is essentially adults' obsession with time-and-motion, and it takes the child Momo to rescue them from this. Ironically perhaps, I read it in the original German, which took me ten years (of admittedly very intermittent reading) to do.<br /><br />In Ende's hometown of Garmish-Paterkirchen there is a Michael Ende park, and it's rather magical: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/michael-ende-kurkpark-michael-ende-parkdansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-42109579743874539002022-08-08T05:53:14.087+08:002022-08-08T05:53:14.087+08:00Fair enough about Neverending Story -- the book is...Fair enough about Neverending Story -- the book is so great it brightens my memories of the movie. Though as a kid I certainly loved the hell out of it -- the only discordant note to me was the passing swipe at video games when the old bookseller tells Bastian "go away, the arcade is down the street". XD No one could tell this '70s kid that I can't love video games and books at the same time!Jason & Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382538007150266805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-71231557903954413552022-08-04T23:11:39.257+08:002022-08-04T23:11:39.257+08:00I'm not sure I agree that there's a clear-...I'm not sure I agree that there's a clear-cut distinction between D&D settings and movie-adaptable plots. Sure, you can't just sit down with Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms and adapt it into a film script verbatim, but how many film scripts start out as a vibe or mise en scene, and go from there? I'm struggling to imagine in what ways a setting could be compelling for a RPG campaign, but not for a movie/tv show/book.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15138028203485822495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-63269647033661847462022-08-04T23:04:58.333+08:002022-08-04T23:04:58.333+08:00I've watched Fellowship in the cinema more tha...I've watched Fellowship in the cinema more than I have any other movie. Although I think it's the strongest of the three, I like a lot of the other two, particularly the Rohan bits. I barely remember anything about the first Hobbit film, I *think* I've seen the 2nd, and definitely haven't seen the 3rd one.<br /><br />But I also love Willow, so...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15138028203485822495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-20520308868195362932022-08-04T17:50:57.582+08:002022-08-04T17:50:57.582+08:00Agreed, it definitely started there, although on t...Agreed, it definitely started there, although on the whole I enjoyed that film more than I disliked it. But every RotK and all 3 (3! FFS!) Hobbit films were just 3-hour fight sequences with no redeeming qualities whatsoever that I could discern.<br /><br />As for Gollum, I see that, now that you mention it. I wasn't at all happy with Gollum in the movies, but at the time that was purely because my introduction to LotR was via the Bakshi film, and my getting to know the story inside out was via the Radio 4 adaptation, which I must have listened to hundreds of times, so I was outraged that Jackson didn't cast Peter Woodthorpe.dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-36248051857120612702022-08-04T17:49:51.694+08:002022-08-04T17:49:51.694+08:00To my shame I loved Willow as kid.To my shame I loved Willow as kid.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-26009810125600415692022-08-04T17:49:30.553+08:002022-08-04T17:49:30.553+08:00I'm not sure if I see the connection between h...I'm not sure if I see the connection between having high production values and being good...!noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-60463003561610645312022-08-04T17:48:47.719+08:002022-08-04T17:48:47.719+08:00Yeah, don't get me wrong - I don't mind th...Yeah, don't get me wrong - I don't mind the new movie having a new story. I just wanted to dig into the reasons as to why.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-80303262692551962062022-08-04T17:47:42.472+08:002022-08-04T17:47:42.472+08:00Yeah, I dunno about Neverending Story. Labyrinth, ...Yeah, I dunno about Neverending Story. Labyrinth, I grant you.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-46731095583971370892022-08-04T17:47:18.684+08:002022-08-04T17:47:18.684+08:00I totally forgot about the existence of Harry Pott...I totally forgot about the existence of Harry Potter.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-50901888965528004582022-08-04T17:46:56.395+08:002022-08-04T17:46:56.395+08:00I agree that in its best moments the LotR films di...I agree that in its best moments the LotR films did achieve that. <br /><br />One thing that irked me about the D&D trailer was the vernacular language of the script - it just sets my teeth on edge.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-35756458372844369052022-08-04T17:45:52.607+08:002022-08-04T17:45:52.607+08:00I dunno - I think a TV series of the first Dragonl...I dunno - I think a TV series of the first Dragonlance books could work (especially if billed as being for "young adults", i.e. kids).noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-22618370261377515752022-08-04T17:44:24.799+08:002022-08-04T17:44:24.799+08:00Yes, I think that's probably right - what ends...Yes, I think that's probably right - what ends up happening is they always make it about "saving the world". (Although I'm sure a lot of D&D games also aspire to have these kinds of "plot" in practice.)noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-37883675350053158202022-08-04T17:43:25.355+08:002022-08-04T17:43:25.355+08:00It started going downhill for me (rapidly) with Th...It started going downhill for me (rapidly) with The Two Towers. I find the new Gollum too hammy, and there is just way too much cheese in the Helm's Deep bits.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-15325712616444184552022-08-03T03:37:28.544+08:002022-08-03T03:37:28.544+08:00"prior to Peter Jackson's The Fellowship ..."prior to Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring, the landscape of fantasy film-making was an absolute ocean of cringeworthiness"<br /><br />And since Peter Jackson's The Two Towers, it's been an absolute galaxy of cringeworthiness. Still, we at least got two decent fantasy films.<br /><br />(For me Conan the Barbarian is the pinnacle of the genre, but that's far more down to my age when it was released than anything actually in the film)dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-915500155738313962022-08-01T18:44:54.285+08:002022-08-01T18:44:54.285+08:00I think the reason D&D films are bad is that D...I think the reason D&D films are bad is that D&D itself is deliberately syncretic, even catachretic, in service of making it work well as a *game*. I does work wonderfully, but makes it a terribly shaky, incoherent foundation for a conventional narrative medium.<br /><br />The closest thing (especially since there are well-liked LoTR movies already) to a D&D film or TV series I could see being wildly successful would be a Lankhmar movie/show. Early D&D is 70-80% Lankhmar by weight already, with some Vance, Howard and Tolkien smashed into it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-17242879437112646702022-08-01T01:58:19.714+08:002022-08-01T01:58:19.714+08:00Oh, yeah...forgot to add:
DragonLance, Forgotten ...Oh, yeah...forgot to add:<br /><br />DragonLance, Forgotten Realms, Baldur's Gate, etc. are *not* good stories. They were good vehicles for playing D&D in a manner that had a bit more depth than 'kick-in-the-door, kill-the-slime-monster." They add context. But adapting them to film (DL was already adapted as a cartoon...with voice actor Keifer Sutherland!), would just show how unsuitable they are.<br /><br />D&D is a game meant to be played and experienced. Film is a different medium of entertainment.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-38345528102018166082022-08-01T01:54:35.870+08:002022-08-01T01:54:35.870+08:00"The second is: why is it that D&D films ..."The second is: why is it that D&D films always seem to be so bad? <br /><br />"This is a good question, but one which could be broadened out to: why is that fantasy films in general always seem to be so bad?"<br /><br />Like many of the posters here, I disagree with the premise that fantasy films (pre-LOTR) "seem to be so bad." There are many classics of the genre that, for their time and technology level are quite good...some hold up well even today. As with most 'good films,' they tend to have a proper mix of fun, seriousness, romance, and action all well-paced and suitably acted. I mean, that's just a commonality with quality cinema.<br /><br />And, sure, there were plenty of duds, too...the ones that are made by less proficient filmmakers, or less-than-serious ones (who only cared about "cashing in" on then-trend...see all the Star Wars knock-offs that came in years following its success), or ones ham-stringed by budget. <br /><br />Jackson's great strength was to parley a medium budget into a massive blockbuster trilogy by using enough CGI along with some very sincere, non-superstar actors, in an excellent location/set-dressed "Middle Earth" using a pretty good story (LotR) that had both cache with fans (who'd long wanted to see a live-action version) and established strength/power that just needed to be harnessed. <br /><br />[the books were HUGE back in the day, the animated films were huge (for what they were) also, but prior to the Jackson films no one had the BALLS to try live-action, and just how much talk was there about "Tolkien" at the time the films came out? Not much outside the RPG community, surely! My non-gamer wife had ZERO IDEA who Gandalf was or even what a Hobbit was, prior to the films...and she's my age. She thought the Jackson films were great...as did MOST folks who saw them]<br /><br />Jackson treated the (first) films with care and love and put a lot of good filmmaking into them, after decades of working experience in the industry. Since the, others have aped his style (taking fantasy 'o so seriously' and using CGI) in order to repeat success. As with the Star Wars knock-offs, the results have been mixed-to-bad at best.<br /><br />RE D&D (as film) in particular<br /><br />There is no established, high-class fiction to draw upon (as there was with LotR)...that's not the strength or beauty of the D&D game. And just coming up with a vehicle for throwing in bits of fanservice and D&Disms (backstabbing thieves, owlbears and beholders, whatever) isn't enough to make a "quality film," even when entrusted to a filmmaker who appreciates and cares for the product (and I have no idea who's making the new film). <br /><br />No D&D film will succeed at being "good" until someone competent sits down and writes/creates a GOOD film, instead of a "D&D film," while using D&Disms in its making.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-984243482335242132022-07-30T13:41:39.552+08:002022-07-30T13:41:39.552+08:00Yeah, a version of that with an actual budget woul...Yeah, a version of that with an actual budget would work so well as a movie, really make it a DnD movie.<br /><br />Dorkness Rising is their beat work but the people behind that put out some other good stuff including more DnD stuff, some Shadowrun, some MtG, all worth taking a look at if you like Dorkness Rising.Boshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908715118408289864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-20177837145778471692022-07-30T02:34:37.621+08:002022-07-30T02:34:37.621+08:00I think my thinking in re a Baldur's Gate adap...I think my thinking in re a Baldur's Gate adaptation for example isn't so much about name recognition, as it is about story quality. I'm not claiming they are on the level of LotR, but part of the reason the (first two) BG games are classics is because of the narrative. Yes, the "there can be only one" is very Highlander, but "the protagonist(s) are unaware that they are the offspring of the dead god of murder" is a strong, very D&D hook. Start-from-scratch adaptations should aim to be at least as good as the available source material, and they so, so often aren't.<br /><br />Moreso than uncanny valley CGI, it's the writing that lets down so many fantasy films and TV shows, specifically the lack of ambition. LotR shines, IMO, because it really feels like the writers were trying to capture the essence of the books' language.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15138028203485822495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-91630401123254475482022-07-29T09:50:23.062+08:002022-07-29T09:50:23.062+08:00Neverending story is pretty much impossible to get...Neverending story is pretty much impossible to get kids into these days, the pacing and the effects don't line up with what they're used to. Princess Bride on the other hand...my son for quoting Inigo Montoya for a month straight.Boshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908715118408289864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-16439638054745888922022-07-29T09:48:20.152+08:002022-07-29T09:48:20.152+08:00Yeah, fully agreed. WRT your anonymous post, with ...Yeah, fully agreed. WRT your anonymous post, with my boys there's a certain level of old school special effects cheese and older animation that they just won't watch. However, along with Willow they do LOVE Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Princess Bride, and Army of Darkness along with enjoying Willow a lot.Boshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06908715118408289864noreply@blogger.com