tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post3157270790500848502..comments2024-03-28T14:55:31.481+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Of Sparse and Dying EarthsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-31691182062487335882021-03-20T12:02:29.270+08:002021-03-20T12:02:29.270+08:00To make my own outrageous generalisations, poorer ...To make my own outrageous generalisations, poorer people tend to live in more dense housing, both on a household level and in cities, and tended to be more left wing, at least until recently when income effects seem to have levelled out.<br /><br />What if we're looking at the fiction of people who like to live in a sleepy cottage, to which they invite only their close friends, vs the fiction of people who walk crowded streets to coffee shops?<br /><br />There's a little too much parallel of extraversion and introversion there, though I think being used to the buzz of the city can also be a separate thing.<br /><br />Full fiction for people from full places, spaced out fiction for people from spaced out places.Josh Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-56177508311795667962021-03-09T02:39:06.967+08:002021-03-09T02:39:06.967+08:00Middle earth was modeled on the Old Testament. Th...Middle earth was modeled on the Old Testament. Things were once great in The Ideal Times and then it all went to crap and is on a continued downward slide and eventually the elves will be all gone and the Numenorean blood will be diluted and everything will suck. <br /><br />Even the first half of the Silmarilion reads like the OT. <br /><br />JRR was a sentimentalist and keen on romanticizing the golden past. So I’d say with Tolkien, the sparseness of ME probably correlates with his conservative personality. Tardigradehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13284435141098973560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-4226694133167465502021-01-20T04:51:39.150+08:002021-01-20T04:51:39.150+08:00You are right about that. Kirth Gerson also goes t...You are right about that. Kirth Gerson also goes to Earth in one of the Demon Princes books. It must be The Palace of Love. Again, he interacts with about three people there and only one of them is of any significance. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-23506769835567291062021-01-20T04:50:34.572+08:002021-01-20T04:50:34.572+08:00Maybe not really densely populated but certainly m...Maybe not really densely populated but certainly much more densely populated than your average sword and sorcery fantasy world. I've not seen the TV series but the books give an impression of a very populous, fairly developed continent. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-76322010513072237562021-01-16T09:08:14.367+08:002021-01-16T09:08:14.367+08:00Is Westeros really densely populated? I haven'...Is Westeros really densely populated? I haven't read the books and your talking books so perhaps I'm wrong but judging by the TV show they only have a handful of settlements scattered across a continent and the place seems totally unpopulated in between. Ruprechthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00139664977453444000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-61963394624759120902021-01-14T01:34:28.959+08:002021-01-14T01:34:28.959+08:00I've been thinking about your Vance comments, ...I've been thinking about your Vance comments, and it occurred to me that Vance has an "artificial scarcity" even when his protagonists go to densely-populated planets. One of the characters in his Cadwal Chronicles series goes to Earth, the densely-populated home of humanity, but he only actually talks to a few people, kind of a "a man is an island" feeling. Other people just don't register much. I'll have to reread this now, to see how he gets the effect.The Malumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12971459955701026406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-75060244459727568982021-01-06T04:49:13.702+08:002021-01-06T04:49:13.702+08:00Yes, I think it probably does. Although that leads...Yes, I think it probably does. Although that leads to the obvious question: are there any settings with low population density but a large number of complex actors, organisations and civilisations? noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-8226066013735744952021-01-04T12:09:20.491+08:002021-01-04T12:09:20.491+08:00These comments remind me of one of the biggest dis...These comments remind me of one of the biggest disappointments in the new Star Wars trilogy: it barely introduces any new aliens, so the biological diversity of the other trilogies is kaput, and the plot is already super simple, so basically, zero lore to chew on.Jason & Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382538007150266805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-14952870806042709182021-01-03T07:54:00.674+08:002021-01-03T07:54:00.674+08:00Mormons can be lovely people, I'm related to s...Mormons can be lovely people, I'm related to several hundred of them in fact. The church just has problems with historical revisionism, homophobia, racism, sexist policies, inadequate financial disclosure, and the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon. That's leaving out weirder older atrocities like the Mountain Meadows Massacre.Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-58136033799760273962021-01-03T05:16:54.863+08:002021-01-03T05:16:54.863+08:00I think Perdido Street Station has massive flaws -...I think Perdido Street Station has massive flaws - it's far too long, awkwardly plotted and in love with its tangents (what was the point of the steampunk Skynet plot-line with the Constructs? Why do we get the meeting between the Mayor and the Ambassador from Hell? These scenes were fun, sure, but they didn't add anything) but I love it as extremely nutritious idea-food. Rocinantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15775746608769762225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-60990162273718341142021-01-02T17:03:34.555+08:002021-01-02T17:03:34.555+08:00Brandon Sanderson's worldbuilding is just tota...Brandon Sanderson's worldbuilding is just totally offputting to me. But I like Mormons. I've never met a Mormon I didn't like, in fact.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-82576834688704900422021-01-02T06:56:03.751+08:002021-01-02T06:56:03.751+08:00I think it's mostly the Libertarianism, yup. S...I think it's mostly the Libertarianism, yup. Same as with Westerns - the fantasy of not being told what to do. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-43807352073993553012021-01-02T06:54:24.619+08:002021-01-02T06:54:24.619+08:00Sanderson is Mormon and teaches at BYU and histori...Sanderson is Mormon and teaches at BYU and historically has hewed to social conservatism, struggling with gay marriage rights in particular. His stories borrow a lot of the themes from Mormonism, deification, garbled religious truth. His portrayal of female characters is very Robert Jordanesque sometimes. After looking it up he's fiscally liberal apparently, I had made assumptions based off of the content of his novels.Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-54145874291398370012021-01-02T06:52:00.372+08:002021-01-02T06:52:00.372+08:00You'd really have to get out to the Russian fr...You'd really have to get out to the Russian frontier or the far north of Scandinavia to find vast stretches of wilderness. Medieval Britain had millions of people, and AIR the Highlands of Scotland were more populated than they are today. Of course travel was often dangerous, but no one ever had to wilderness-camp overnight on a road between settlements. Which is pretty common in D&D.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-4278196905993846992021-01-02T06:00:58.290+08:002021-01-02T06:00:58.290+08:00Does it make sense to differentiate between popula...Does it make sense to differentiate between population density and the number of complex actors, organizations and civilizations in the world, which are not necessarily equivalent?PrinceofNothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733680486570025367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-14046467357479025682021-01-02T03:04:00.148+08:002021-01-02T03:04:00.148+08:00Very useful set of axies! Very useful set of axies! Annon #8107https://www.blogger.com/profile/16869484989966434932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-39987892384973290472021-01-02T01:52:27.494+08:002021-01-02T01:52:27.494+08:00Interesting. I couldn't warm to Perdido Street...Interesting. I couldn't warm to Perdido Street Station at all but I do like The Scar and Iron Council. I get what you meam about vast emptiness...but there seems a fecundity to Mieville's worldbuilding. Bas-Lag feels very big but also very full.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-53651109842590808002021-01-02T01:50:42.049+08:002021-01-02T01:50:42.049+08:00Yes, Tschai is a bit like that as well.Yes, Tschai is a bit like that as well.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-36950842511010195082021-01-02T01:50:08.363+08:002021-01-02T01:50:08.363+08:00To be fair I think Rohan is described as being nor...To be fair I think Rohan is described as being normally quite densely populated but everybody has fled to Helm's Deep or run away to the mountains. I actually don't mind the idea that Gondor is mysteriously developed, either. They do have the last bits of Numenorean blood after all, and it makes sense geographically because Gondor is sheltered from harm behind mountains.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-38244450746332982732021-01-02T01:47:41.968+08:002021-01-02T01:47:41.968+08:00Almost certainly. Almost certainly. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-87108658799011979662021-01-02T01:47:20.291+08:002021-01-02T01:47:20.291+08:00You may be right about the length issue. Although ...You may be right about the length issue. Although a lot of long epic fantasy series feel quite sparse as well - the Eddings ones, for instance, or Shannara.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-30125961471977302602021-01-02T01:38:57.674+08:002021-01-02T01:38:57.674+08:00That depends on which part of Europe. The populate...That depends on which part of Europe. The populated areas were densely so, but there were vast stretches of wilderness and forest too, I believe.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-76625767658552938102021-01-02T01:36:48.723+08:002021-01-02T01:36:48.723+08:00Yes, actually I was going to add to the post that ...Yes, actually I was going to add to the post that old school Warhammer is rather dense whereas 40k, for all its vast scope, leans sparse.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-15677934367657032192021-01-01T19:06:07.646+08:002021-01-01T19:06:07.646+08:00I've just finished a re-read of Bas-Lag and I ...I've just finished a re-read of Bas-Lag and I actually think that there's a real fascination with emptiness in both Iron Council and The Scar - and the sense, similar to Vance - that those spaces outside state control, the wildernesses, are open to the formation of new societies. In the margins exist enormous opportunity for groups, not individuals. The world-building is shallow (or merely suggestive) for large swathes of the map. (Cobsea? What's going on there?). I often feel, especially in The Scar and Iron Council, that Mieville is wrestling with a totalising philosophical/ policitical system (socialism, for example) and how it can deal with the enormous diversity of the real world. <br /><br />There is this fascination with diversity in Mieville that comes full circle from the stultifying worlds of Sanderson, Faerun etc where lots of things exist, and are explained (and explainable). Mieville's is a world that has such fecund, kaleidoscopic diversity that nothing can really be explained or comprehended. I think for DMs this is a lesson. Mieville can add endless new things to his world because it feels so wide and strange and unknown. I often DM with a setting that is a region in a wider world, and in which that wider world is not truly known or comprehended, so that there can always be something alien to be found. Rocinantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15775746608769762225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-20628161238958295742021-01-01T07:57:26.492+08:002021-01-01T07:57:26.492+08:00Interesting post. Definitely a spectrum there.
E...Interesting post. Definitely a spectrum there. <br /><br />Expanding re: Vance, his libertarianism (definitely not doctrinaire, but a strong streak), also resulted in some stories set in super **dense** societies. Usually places with rigid, stultifying social structures, so the self-sufficient Vancian hero has something to rebel against. Emphyrio, To Live Forever (Clarges), Alastor: Wyst, Languages of Pao. <br /><br />To Live Forever is about a culture with the technology to eliminate death, resulting in mass overpopulation. They develop an elaborate, computer system for executing people sooner or later depending on how much they contribute to society.Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923725063649465366noreply@blogger.com