tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post6609741964282237822..comments2024-03-28T22:10:04.089+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Reconceptualising the Morale CheckUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-43215535029373529702015-03-04T00:05:04.715+08:002015-03-04T00:05:04.715+08:00Your question was discussed in an angryDM post.
...Your question was discussed in an angryDM post. <br /><br />His approach is that the combat rules should only be used when there are two sides who are actually fighting each other. <br /><br />When a retreat is declared or it is obvious one side has won stop using them and use something else. <br />My thoughts on that something else for a side that retreats. They roll 2d6 add their dex mod and +1 for ever 5ft of move speed past 30 -1 for every 5 ft below 30<br /><br />The winners do the same and if you beat the runners score they take a hit. <br />Maybe have each panicking unit get run down and killed or captured if caught. Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14470310236271923471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-81059252445180790142015-01-16T22:22:58.635+08:002015-01-16T22:22:58.635+08:00I think it's a perennial problem with D&D ...I think it's a perennial problem with D&D but I think the 'organised retreat' rules I suggested may make things a bit more realistic. <br /><br />In wilderness chases, though, I would also roll a random encounter roll pretty frequently (maybe every other round). All that noise is going to attract attention pretty rapidly. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-37452137498723052952015-01-16T13:17:27.936+08:002015-01-16T13:17:27.936+08:00Yes! I still believe the meaning the word has take...Yes! I still believe the meaning the word has taken on gives us a good yard-stick for expected casualties, though. It also implies that (since a punishment for desertion must be worse than the fate you avoided by deserting, in order to be effective) that odds of survival in battle were commonly recognized as being better than one-in-ten.Confanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-83745389747749525192015-01-16T11:30:32.420+08:002015-01-16T11:30:32.420+08:00I have a question. In my experience, largely runni...I have a question. In my experience, largely running and playing versions 3 and 5, Every time opponents run away, they are almost always slaughtered as they run. The turn based, flat movement rate mechanics of the systems make it difficult for enemies to put enough distance between themselves and the PCs to escape properly, particularly in wilderness settings, and particularly when there are more than one ranged character. Is this a problem with those particularly systems, or do earlier versions suffer this as well? Are my groups and I just particularly vicious? How do you recommend handling players who want to chase down and slaughter every fleeing enemy? Caduceusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-52328006619635837472015-01-16T06:13:39.374+08:002015-01-16T06:13:39.374+08:00Indeed, though I think I'm right in saying tha...Indeed, though I think I'm right in saying that decimation was a form of punishment for mutinous units in the Roman Empire?noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-7527613769522511492015-01-16T03:06:53.123+08:002015-01-16T03:06:53.123+08:00I've been torn between the more varied outcome...I've been torn between the more varied outcomes of the overly complicated post-melee morale system of Chainmail and the simplicity of the 2d6 vs. Morale score from B/X. Your system puts the "good order" back in the game.<br /><br />Thanks for these good ideas, noisms.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04788525717551127563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-53532233476468987072015-01-16T00:21:19.395+08:002015-01-16T00:21:19.395+08:00If I run away, I might make it, if I stay, I am su...If I run away, I might make it, if I stay, I am surely dead. My odds go up if I am one of the first to run away (in a mass combat). We all know an organized retreat would be better, but that requires coordination, leadership, and somewhat level heads, all things a panic'd losing enemy is short of supply on.<br />Though not a perfect fit, there is that old saying, I only have to outrun the fellow next to me.<br />Stacktracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05778633676064958982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-62546402150622930622015-01-15T23:26:24.483+08:002015-01-15T23:26:24.483+08:00I'm going to be running the IKRPG tonight, so ...I'm going to be running the IKRPG tonight, so I'm glad I saw your post.<br /><br />In all honestly, I'm guilty of the fight-to-the-death mindset, and yes, a lot of that has to do with lack of forward thinking, and not visualizing the motivations of antagonists in combat.<br /><br />It'll probably take some homebrewing to manufacture some morale checks in IKRPG, and I may steal 賈尼's mechanics and mod them for a 2d6 system.<br /><br />Let's hope 2015 is the year I start letting thugs and cutpurses escape with their lives, if not all their limbs.David Schimpffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207702598494587244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-80610841054152346682015-01-15T21:23:09.633+08:002015-01-15T21:23:09.633+08:00Yeah, there need to be exceptions for mook-style c...Yeah, there need to be exceptions for mook-style creatures and also animals, which let's face it are going to run away at the soonest opportunity they have when things get nasty. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-66026968642994298202015-01-15T21:22:18.514+08:002015-01-15T21:22:18.514+08:00That sounds cool, but also it sort of ruins the &#...That sounds cool, but also it sort of ruins the 'purity' of doing combat through the attack roll, if you're bothered about that sort of thing.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-78096311464376108692015-01-15T21:21:07.131+08:002015-01-15T21:21:07.131+08:00Confanity has explained it well, but I think you&#...Confanity has explained it well, but I think you're letting your prejudice against D&D influence your reading of the rule. An organised retreat will generally be the best option. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-20710487245158553442015-01-15T16:59:07.602+08:002015-01-15T16:59:07.602+08:00The morale check is a game mechanic in D&D tha...<i>The morale check is a game mechanic in D&D that is designed to remedy this, but I've always found it a bit of a blunt instrument, contingent on abstractions (25% casualties, half hit points lost, etc.) which may not be appropriate in a given situation.</i><br /><br />I haven't played "out-of-the-book" D&D for ages, but the above should be combined with command rules.<br /><br />Here are my quite simple Morale rules, but they're based on BRP and not on D&D: http://celestialempire.blogspot.com/p/morale-ratings.html賈尼https://www.blogger.com/profile/03207671300903490067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-9396175545442311572015-01-15T13:05:50.493+08:002015-01-15T13:05:50.493+08:00Nice post. In the comments on casualty rates, you ...Nice post. In the comments on casualty rates, you might also note that "decimation," which to us denotes utter disaster, literally means losing 10% of your force.Confanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-5786407628819720912015-01-15T13:04:37.237+08:002015-01-15T13:04:37.237+08:001. Depends on the range. If you're getting mag...1. Depends on the range. If you're getting magic-missile hits, you might be far enough away to just hoof it without anyone getting the chance to stab you in the back.<br />2. Even a free hit isn't automatic death if you start at full HP; better to risk eating one when you're able to stagger home than when you're on your last legs.<br />3. Orcs may not *know* that the GM is going to assign auto-hits against them for fleeing. They may not even know there's a GM.<br />4. An auto-hit is the penalty for fleeing in panic; organized retreats offer far better odds.<br />5. If you're in a panic, you probably aren't making the best decisions.Confanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-58078008635187199432015-01-15T08:23:24.256+08:002015-01-15T08:23:24.256+08:00I'm confused.
It's unrealistic to say tha...I'm confused.<br /><br />It's unrealistic to say that a group of orcs would stay, and fight to the death, but if they run it's easier to hit them. So...running away is more likely to get them killed than staying and fighting, eliminating the point of running away.<br /><br />Then...<br /><br />A) If the enemy gets an extra/free attack when they stop fighting, and flee, why not fight to the death?<br /><br />B) Why have a check? Just kill them like you were going to anyway.<br /><br />It's a D&D thing isn't it?Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-46613321971272288772015-01-15T07:48:13.247+08:002015-01-15T07:48:13.247+08:00If you dropped in a rule where if you can hit some...If you dropped in a rule where if you can hit someone, not just withdrawing from combat, but someone actively running away from you, then its Save or Die for them, what effect would that have?pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-4546639240405337282015-01-15T07:04:18.517+08:002015-01-15T07:04:18.517+08:00Definitely like the "half Morale Score as Thr...Definitely like the "half Morale Score as Threshold" to trigger different monster behaviors. I've been trying to be better about things like Encounter Distance and Morale lately. It's something I've thought about folding into Side Based Initiative. <br /><br />I think triggering the bonuses/penalties associated with an organized retreat is probably an excellent application for more militarized/disciplined monsters (like your conventional Hobgoblin Contubernium), I just wonder what we could trigger with the Half Morale Score for less disciplined foes. ktreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16680322763419091488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-35053513509008305732015-01-15T04:54:44.234+08:002015-01-15T04:54:44.234+08:00I use Warhammer-style rules where being in melee a...I use Warhammer-style rules where being in melee and then suddenly leaving results in an autohit from the enemy (lots of exceptions but that's the gist) so this somewhat imitates "getting messed up during a rout".<br /><br />In theory, I also like it because at that point the climax of the battle is over, so it draw it out a little less.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-14141176864939470862015-01-15T03:44:44.272+08:002015-01-15T03:44:44.272+08:00I like using morale checks in games, but never fel...I like using morale checks in games, but never felt it was quite right. These seem like really good suggestions, and I particularly like how the organized retreat works.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.com