tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post7431988657313421993..comments2024-03-29T04:24:58.321+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Keeping it Honest: Why Dice MatterUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-60887566605087280762021-08-17T15:30:02.479+08:002021-08-17T15:30:02.479+08:00From what I hear from mainland European colleagues...From what I hear from mainland European colleagues, that kind of system (common across Europe) is even worse than the British system in many ways, because you end up with hordes of young people turning up at university being totally incapable of doing well. This is bad for everyone, but especially universities. In my view the best way is something like what I believe Switzerland does - the people in the top 25% (or whatever) of school grades get the option to go to uni and that is that. This maintains the purpose of universities and avoids the disappointment of legions of young people going to uni and performing terribly, dropping out or getting shit degrees.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-43929110794060975142021-08-16T00:41:32.453+08:002021-08-16T00:41:32.453+08:00Nice way of thinking about it!Nice way of thinking about it!noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-44618532485536034322021-08-15T22:21:09.430+08:002021-08-15T22:21:09.430+08:00I live in Belgium. We don't have "central...I live in Belgium. We don't have "central exams" at the end of secondary education, so every grading is teacher-based. This works because we have a very open access tertiary education. Anyone with a high-school diploma can enroll in any course at university (there are some exceptions). The drawback is that many students might fail their first year, but at least everyone has the chance to push the "reset button" if for whatever reason you might have experienced a less-than-stellar education at high school.<br />I'm not saying either system is right or wrong - just saying there are more options than putting people in ranking systems starting at a young age.Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-29724761985645986702021-08-13T10:47:35.774+08:002021-08-13T10:47:35.774+08:00Rolling the dice is like a contract. "The und...Rolling the dice is like a contract. "The undersigned agree that this outcome is to be determined randomly pursuant to the relevant factors. Grognar, you need a 12 to hit it." If the DM (or whomever) already knows how it must and will turn out, then it's disingenuous to roll. Nor should I need my attorney to facilitate ordering chicken nuggets. If it's trivial and the outcome is obvious, why are we rolling the dice? Like many things, these difficulties can be solved with a little clarity.<br /><br />As for academia, well there are at least a thousand of Protagoras for every one Socrates.Korgothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04683370654357044679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-50161285614666465342021-08-13T04:01:49.803+08:002021-08-13T04:01:49.803+08:00Ha! I'm not a big fan of his work with Keith J...Ha! I'm not a big fan of his work with Keith Joseph, or with Alastair Campbell, but he does seem to be mellowing with age.dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-4036165768423795602021-08-13T02:26:13.236+08:002021-08-13T02:26:13.236+08:00I’ll not hear a word said against Johnny Sumption....I’ll not hear a word said against Johnny Sumption. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-25762415783928719942021-08-13T01:18:21.917+08:002021-08-13T01:18:21.917+08:00I know *that*... if you didn't edit the second...I know *that*... if you didn't edit the second comment, then my senior moment was thinking that I'd included the name of the not-really-uncle (you'll know him from cases such as the Birmingham Six and Mohammed Al Fayed). Come to think of it, I have another highly-placed legalistic relative, who shares my surname, but I've never met him so can't speak for his levels of narcissism (though I have my suspicions)dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-48684532404390425152021-08-13T00:38:28.394+08:002021-08-13T00:38:28.394+08:00No, look up - you posted two comments, grandpa!!No, look up - you posted two comments, grandpa!!noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-32120841675317583342021-08-12T22:57:43.726+08:002021-08-12T22:57:43.726+08:00Haha, did you edit this comment for potentially li...Haha, did you edit this comment for potentially libellous content? 😂 Don't blame you. Glad you left the host of the BBC's most dysfunctional X "entertainment" programme in the previous comment though.dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-5310238868094038752021-08-12T21:08:47.504+08:002021-08-12T21:08:47.504+08:00The Examination system of Old China was famously o...The Examination system of Old China was famously obtuse, bizarre, and was so strict in its rituals that it practically encouraged cheating.TavernStoephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511145010231511519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-29941799799026053122021-08-12T18:13:58.989+08:002021-08-12T18:13:58.989+08:00(Of course, you work in law, where I imagine being...(Of course, you work in law, where I imagine being a narcissistic psychopath may be something of a career advantage - my ex-step-uncle-in-law being a prime example of the former - so YMMV)dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-58788222197699811502021-08-12T17:38:30.688+08:002021-08-12T17:38:30.688+08:00IMO both exams and teacher-based assessments are m...IMO both exams and teacher-based assessments are more-or-less equally flawed. Success in exams proves mainly that you are good in exams. In my former career, many companies assessed potential candidates using exams, with highly questionable results.<br /><br />Above all, exams highlight the unsuitability of the education system. They are the culmination of a process that values individual work, competition and self-aggrandisement above all else. This is completely out of step with the real world, and results in psychopaths like my former boss Alan Sugar (the biggest cunt I've ever met, whose only real skill aside from being a cunt is negotiating pennies off electrical components) being held up as some kind of paragon. In the real world (as in most RPGs) cooperation and collaboration are the most important skills.<br /><br />Another former employer of mine Gwyn ap Hari (not a cunt) set up XP School in Doncaster and, while I'm not on the whole a fan of free schools (most of them seem to be vanity projects), visiting and talking to the kids there was an utter revelation. All of their work is team-based: they succeed or fail as one. Of course they have to abide by the national curriculum (although their approach to doing so is again radical - for example in Y7 physics, chemistry, maths and home economics are taught together as "molecular gastronomy", resulting in an "open evening" where pupils cook for their parents and explain the processes behind their cooking). And while they must also take part in national exams, most of their ongoing assessment is judged by the pupils themselves - judging both their own progress and that of their peers. While this sounds like another recipe for exaggeration and lies, it's actually very effective; as with the examples here of players who argue against successful dice rolls, children raised in a collaborative fashion actually seem to care about the truth.<br /><br />What does any of this have to do with dice? TBH I'm not quite sure. I think it parallels the difference between diceless story-based RPGs and those which rely on a random element. Nothing wrong with dice-based RPGs of course - if you're playing by those rules then those are the rules that you play by - but in the real world it's surprising how much of what we take to be "random" is actually a case of making your own luck.dansumptionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403248887250857638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-29217016427871800292021-08-12T15:34:41.275+08:002021-08-12T15:34:41.275+08:00Such a great point. This is one of the reasons why...Such a great point. This is one of the reasons why you should only roll when it matters. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-54148210896515781392021-08-12T11:20:52.313+08:002021-08-12T11:20:52.313+08:00One thing that happens a lot especially in skill-h...One thing that happens a lot especially in skill-heavy games like Call of Cthulhu of course is the “DM asks the players to make an easy roll to kill time but has no plan for what to do when the players fail”. That’s a pretty common fudging/backtracking failure point in my experience.Jason & Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382538007150266805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-69486517572579622982021-08-12T08:00:06.708+08:002021-08-12T08:00:06.708+08:00That's called arbitrating the results, and it&...That's called arbitrating the results, and it's perfectly fine for the GM to interpret dice rolls as he sees fit. Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-60241197296409943132021-08-12T07:56:00.523+08:002021-08-12T07:56:00.523+08:00Life... that's how you differentiate yourself ...Life... that's how you differentiate yourself from your mediocre peers. Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-72317528188310776732021-08-12T07:54:00.960+08:002021-08-12T07:54:00.960+08:00Somedays, I think we should put all the bureaucrat...Somedays, I think we should put all the bureaucrats, experts, and scholars on the "B" ship... so they can prepare Earth 2 for the rest of us. Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-59603114410886978682021-08-12T02:35:40.232+08:002021-08-12T02:35:40.232+08:00I like the ancient Chinese practice of assigning p...I like the ancient Chinese practice of assigning places in the bureaucracy on the basis of exams. Government not by kings, or warriors, or priests, or merchants, or orators...but by scholars.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-71671943420720771662021-08-12T02:22:31.659+08:002021-08-12T02:22:31.659+08:00Not sure a bank would be the first place I'd l...Not sure a bank would be the first place I'd look for fewer phonies. Maybe some kind of mason's association, or a miner's guild. Good solid rocks.<br /><br />Re: A levels, funny Mitchell and Webb sketch about same issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJyLWtYU8c which shares your point of nepotism or halo effect or whatever else filling in the gaps where bureaucratic evaluation withdraws.<br /><br />Re: dice & the fudging thereof, personally against it. The unexpected and risk (even the risk of boredom) are a big part of my enjoyment of rpgs. Fudging rolls, especially in the dramatic moments when one might be most tempted to do it, would diminish that.semiurgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10613841869525544649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-49593818462976745252021-08-12T02:14:00.584+08:002021-08-12T02:14:00.584+08:00Ah but that's the kicker you see. We don't...Ah but that's the kicker you see. We don't always have an outcome in mind. Sometimes an outcome only occurs to you in the moment.<br /><br />Also, do those rolling dice in a RAW game Not have an outcome in mind? Are they not intending to succeed? The die provides a chance that they won't but I'm sure it isn't their goal, right?<br /><br />Generally speaking I as much as anyone advocate for rolling dice and abiding by the outcome. Generally isn't always however and there are times when there is a better outcome to be had by being creative with results.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-6534201566348188042021-08-12T01:08:07.201+08:002021-08-12T01:08:07.201+08:00Believe me, that is also true at university level....Believe me, that is also true at university level. It’s even true, I think, at PhD level.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-69289560204316098272021-08-12T01:07:25.270+08:002021-08-12T01:07:25.270+08:00Yeah, I don’t agree. I’m familiar with all the cri...Yeah, I don’t agree. I’m familiar with all the critiques of exams. They’re valid. But they’re better than the alternative, which is people getting good jobs and good university places purely because they are nice/pretty/connected. At least where exams exist, people who are not nice/pretty/connected get a way to prove their worth. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-85940428800833531262021-08-12T01:05:22.653+08:002021-08-12T01:05:22.653+08:00Completely agree. Completely agree. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-87096845486638582021-08-12T01:05:07.426+08:002021-08-12T01:05:07.426+08:00In the long term it’s in nobody’s interest. Those ...In the long term it’s in nobody’s interest. Those kids you mentioned are hurt too, but the ones I really feel sorry for are the students who really deserved A*s but now have no way to really differentiate themselves from mediocre peers.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-48105751429261203542021-08-12T01:03:52.906+08:002021-08-12T01:03:52.906+08:00I agree. What would be the point in rolling dice a...I agree. What would be the point in rolling dice at all if you already have an outcome in mind? noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.com