tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post8900260223054125464..comments2024-03-28T22:10:04.089+08:00Comments on Monsters and Manuals: Further NotesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-79836807070668099702008-06-29T09:10:00.000+08:002008-06-29T09:10:00.000+08:00You've got yourself a deal, Max. Love the Weird Ap...You've got yourself a deal, Max. Love the Weird Appalachian idea. I think we need a deadline, though, because otherwise I'll never do it. <BR/><BR/>(Re: Simon; no, my real name's Dave. The reason I chose "Noisms" was that once I was trying to come up with a one word definition of my own personal philosophy and that seemed like it: no '-isms'. Beliefs and opinions are good, but usually once something turns into an -ism it's an ideology and that's often bad. Except Magic Realism; that's the exception that proves the rule. Or something.)noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-35143962504613689332008-06-28T23:46:00.000+08:002008-06-28T23:46:00.000+08:00RE: New ideas based on old rules.Tell you what, No...RE: New ideas based on old rules.<BR/><BR/>Tell you what, Noisms*, if you work on an Oz sourcebook** (or whatever catches your fancy) perhaps <I>I'll</I> put together some notes for Dark Hollow, my own folkways heartbreaker based on Appalachian Werd setting based on tall tales, bilues and old time ballads, and Manly Wade Wellman. <BR/><BR/>*That's not a loose anagram for Simon, is it?, <BR/><BR/>**Did you think Scarecrow meets Honey Ant Dreaming too? Follow the Yellow Dust Songline? Er, probably just me then.Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07615194097431562045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-32696368097472867932008-06-27T10:01:00.000+08:002008-06-27T10:01:00.000+08:00Odyssey: I agree that this shouldn't be about pand...<B>Odyssey</B>: I agree that this shouldn't be about pandering to so-called "modern gamers". I just think that if people create innovative products using retro-clone systems then they might be pleasantly surprised to find that "modern gamers" want to play them.<BR/><BR/>Mostly, though, yeah - it should first and foremost be about new things for old-school players to play. The problem is that there seems to be a fair amount of inbuilt hostility among some sections of the "old school" to anything new. I get the feeling that if I was to write up and publish a Labyrinth Lord Aboriginal Cthulu setting, it would be looked upon as, gasp! heresy.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-76978503331968216322008-06-27T02:48:00.000+08:002008-06-27T02:48:00.000+08:00"Bah," I say, to the claim that modern gamers are ..."Bah," I say, to the claim that modern gamers are hardwired to dislike OD&D and older games. I'm in the middle of running a 4e game, and my current group -- all introduced to roleplaying via 3rd edition D&D -- includes one player who otherwise exclusively plays 2nd edition AD&D (and has declared 4e "fun, but inferior"), two players who don't particularly care about system because one is there to hang out and the other cares more about her character's personality and history than her stats.<BR/><BR/>And me, of course, who got a 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide along with my 4e books, because I kept hearing cool things about it. I have not been disappointed.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, we also have a player who dislikes 4e because it doesn't provide enough rules for non-combat situations and character traits, and another who is primarily interested in character power and system crunch. I could convince them to play, and they'd probably have fun, but they're never going to have the same "my life will not be complete until I have played this game" feeling about OD&D that I do.<BR/><BR/>My group is probably unusual. There are, certainly, people at school who I would never invite to a retro game. But I doubt we're unique. Show us young whippersnappers the cool things about old school gaming. That enthusiasm is infectious.<BR/><BR/>That said, while I'm fully in favor of new and weird and different in old school gaming (more toys!) I don't think getting new gamers into old school gaming should be the goal of such products. It should be "something different for old schoolers to play," new fun for people who like old games and are dissatisfied with the products of the modern industry's major players. Openness to modern gamers is good, but we don't need to be catered to.<BR/><BR/>And at the risk of making this comment even more long and rambly: dude! Australian Cthulu! Kangaroos Man Was Not Meant to Know! I seriously need to work some aboriginal Australian myth into my next D&D game, it's got that whole epic wonder thing going to it.Nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528192783751011497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-40484741624776693082008-06-26T22:50:00.000+08:002008-06-26T22:50:00.000+08:00Thanks Terry. I agree that the biggest hurdles for...Thanks Terry. I agree that the biggest hurdles for new players to overcome are the ones you describe - namely randomness and starting off as a weakling. And I wouldn't like to dilute those qualities because they're some of my favourite aspects of older D&D. But as I said, we'll never know unless we try. I definitely agree that Mutant Future is a step in the right direction, even if it is an homage to Gamma World. <BR/><BR/>I'm not a game producer of any stripe either, I should point out! But that shouldn't stop either you or me. Right now this whole Old School Revival is in its infancy and there's nothing to stop you giving it a go. I'm certainly jotting down some ideas for a new Labyrinth Lord setting.noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2513019539869706574.post-104855996227739252008-06-26T22:19:00.000+08:002008-06-26T22:19:00.000+08:00I do agree that this would be a great direction fo...I do agree that this would be a great direction for the old school retro-clone systems to go Noisms. It would certainly breathe more life into them and the entire old school movement. Unfortunately I guess a lot of us get bogged down in trying to fight the endless battle of old school Dungeons & Dragons proper against whatever flavour of 'official' D&D happens to be current and vainly trying to bring back the olden days when 'our' version of the game was the 'official' version instead of looking towards where old school ideologies and systems could move into new territory, thereby possibly hooking new players more easily and then turning around to show them the root of the whole thing...original editions of D&D.<BR/><BR/>And you may be right, perhaps my thought that the majority of new schoolers will simply reject an OD&D system out of hand due to it's mechanics is overstated, but I do think that much of what underpins and defines the OD&D as a system (esp. randomness, Roleplaying as opposed to roll-playing encounters, and being more of a generic figure as opposed to a superhero...at least at the beginning) is a real turn-off for new RPGers and flies in the face of their basic expectations.<BR/><BR/>That being said, seeing the retro-clone rulesets being used as the core for completely new games/settings/whatever just as D20 was would be fantastic.<BR/><BR/>I think in some ways the new 'Mutant Future' game by Goblinoid games using Labyrinth Lord is a step towards this...sort of. Before anyone jumps in here, yes I know that it is in many ways an homage to 'Gamma World', but I think it is still a step in this 'new worlds' direction that you mention. It at least shows that the system itself can be used to create worlds other than D&D.<BR/><BR/>I am by no means a game producer of any stripe...I have no experience and have not even been able to design an adventure module at this point, but it really gets the juices flowing to think of designing a new game world of my own using the core of a ruleset like Labyrinth Lord.<BR/><BR/>Food for thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com