I recently recorded a podcast episode for higher-level backers of the Yoon-Suin 2nd edition kickstarter, in which I was subjected to some tough questions about certain aspects of the book. I liked the line of questioning, as I think it made the conversation much more interesting than a series of underarm throws ('Tell us exactly what else is brilliant about Chapter Four?'). But I wanted to expand in written form about an aspect of one question that particularly interested me.
The question was about what the interviewer called 'magical misandry', namely a theme which apparently (I hadn't realised this) crops up a few times in the book, and which I will describe as the 'Delilah motif'. This is the succubus-style female monster who uses magical or surreptitious means to deprive an, implicitly male, PC of his strength and vitality, or to kill or enslave him.
I name this the Delilah motif after the biblical character Delilah, who as you will know deprived Samson of his strength by cutting his hair while he lay across her thighs - it being strongly implied that this was after a bit of good old rumpy-pumpy. I am sure there are earlier examples if it in human myth, but this is familiar enough to have resonance.
The important thing about the Delilah motif is that, while we may disapprove of it or look askance at what it says about male-female relations, it also speaks in what I think is a very interesting way to a stereotyped feature of those relations which you can think of almost as the inverse, or evil twin, of the story of Beauty and the Beast. Why does Beauty and the Beast have particular power, such that it is basically the plot of almost every romance novel that has ever been written (woman meets strong, virile, wild male figure - vampire, pirate, werewolf, sadomasochist billionaire, etc. - and civilises him with her femininity)? It is because it speaks to a desire that appears to be deep-rooted in a great many people. The mythically or semiotically feminine transforms the mythically or semiotically masculine into something which can be good and productive in human society. Female love transforms the bad boy into a good man. And both women and men respond to that concept in fiction, at least in very large numbers.
(The list of confirmations of this truth are so many it is barely worth even beginning to start - I suppose we could write down 'Han Solo' and start from there.)
The Delilah motif interestingly and powefully inverts that notion by playing on the male fear of being civilised. Here I am drinking mead, eating syrup from the corpses of lions, swinging my dick in the wilderness and killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey, and it's great. And she wants me to settle down? Here feminine power is not portrayed as the redemptive power of love ('I've been saved by a woman...'), but as something which saps a man of his strength and vitality and ultimately weakens him to the point of incapacity. This is the stereotyped fear, familiar to us from sitcoms, soap operas and Hollywood movies, in the heart of the irresponsible male of being tied to a particular woman (it being no accident of course that Samson ends up being tied with rope after his seduction and impromptu short-back-and-sides).
The Beauty and the Beast story and the Delilah motif exist in a state of productive tension in almost every romcom that ever was created, with the female character functioning as both transformative saviour and threat, and the male character functioning as both magnificent untamed beast and irresponsible fly-by-night, with the tension being finally resolved in balance of the former in both instances. And this is part of their charm and what (to a great many people) is part of the joy of male-female courtship rituals in their traditional form.
What monsters such as the succubus (and those of its ilk in Yoon-Suin) really do is simply trade on the Delilah motif in a way that, while it may not sit right in contemporary mores, strikes at the heart of that tension and essentially resolves it in the opposite direction to a romcom. You might even say that this is what the great many horror films that trade on that motif also do (whether as a minor incident, as in the opening to Phantasm, or as the whole plot of the film, as in Audition). They just tip the balance from Beauty and the Beast to Delilah.
And in that regard I don't think there is anything wrong with exploring that motif in D&D monster form. No, it isn't a healthy way to imagine male-female relationhips. But since when did any monster succeed by being a healthy reflection of anything? The point of a good monster is to disturb. And one way to effectively disturb people is to take a trope with which they are familiar - and which is extremely deep-rooted across cultures - and exploit it. So why not?
It's in the canon (check the Sirine entry in AD&D Monster Manual 2, which in turn is the most-developed version of the Dryad type from Monster Manual). This trope so exercised the mind of Gygax that he put in a whole new ability score (Unearthed Arcana's Comeliness) to produce its effects.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of monster-trap, as it plays out in practice, demonstrates that players are not just responding to *in-game* incentives, when they pursue amours in the guise of their characters.
Great point.
DeleteI've always found succubus-style female monsters a bit awkward in the sense that to roleplay them and their threat properly as a DM you have to have them act seductively and flirtatious with a player who may or may not be comfortable with mixing in sex and sexuality with D&D. Although, having an up front session 0 conversation on what you want your campaign to be like and the content in it is a good thing to deal with this. Overall having a Delilah style monster requires a bit of a deft hand I think as a DM and in general I'll just leave them out or have them not be sexually aggressive.
ReplyDeleteIt does always kind of make me laugh though when people get all morally indignant when works of horror or villainy include problematically unhealthy dynamics and things. Like it's right there in the name of the genre *horror*. It's not always meant to evoke feelings of comfort and self-empowerment, sometimes it's there purely to do the opposite.
I know what you mean. I wouldn't roleplay it out, except for laughs when I knew it would be taken that way. I'd probably just say, 'The dryad seduces you' or whatever.
DeleteDid the idea of woman as redeemer predate Christianity?
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was the story of Esther, which I think has aspects of that motif. I then cheated and asked Claude (I know, I know) and it came up with Enkidu, who apparently is civilised by having sex with the temple woman Shamhat.
DeleteArguably she's a first draft of Delilah. Enkidu is invincible and can talk to animals until she seduces him.
DeleteAt least when things are framed the way they are here, I wonder if this phenomenon isn't at least in part just a displacement of the fear of aging. "I used to be young and strong and virile; now I'm married, forty years old, tired, and busy taking care of my kids... IF ONLY I HADN'T GOTTEN HITCHED TO THAT WOMAN I WOULD PROBABLY STILL BE TWENTY YEARS OLD AND POWERFUL, ARRRGH!" Or something like that. All the more so for D&D monsters that used to take male PCs out of the game for a span of years.
ReplyDeleteLet's also not forget that while some people may be bothered when this "Delilah inversion" crops up, the _other_ inversion (the one where male desire is imposed upon a women _without_ him being "civilized" or "captured") is depressingly common in the real world, covering a whole unhappy spectrum from catcalling and manipulative one-night stands to straight-up murder. It's so common that, unlike with dryads etc., you're almost never going to see it given a dedicated game mechanic because that would be too icky and not nearly fantastical enough.
To piggy-back on this point, it's also possible that the Delilah motif feels bad to some because it is a bit like punching down. You can build up the feminine by expanding its definition to incorporate trope-breaking heroism, but saying it has a seductive and withering effect might trip that warning in some that it plays into misogyny. I think there are ways of deftly handling it so that it adds to the game without those feels, though, and I wouldn't want to lose it just due to "an overabundance of caution."
DeleteI'm not entirely sure that the 'other' inversion is absent from myths or fairy stories (see e.g. the story of the minotaur, or Bluebeard). It is also sort of implicit in vampires, I think. But yes, I take the point that it is not a thing that one would want to see in a dedicated game mechanic.
Deletethe Delilah motif is so common because it's true. I've sapped the life-forces of three men this week alone.
ReplyDeleteHere’s another interesting blog post about the flavors and inversions of the Delilah motif (touching on Enkidu, Pandora, and Genesis/Eve) from an old-school-adjacent pretend elf game blog: https://traversefantasy.blogspot.com/2026/05/the-thing-about-eve.html
ReplyDeleteIf i can loop this back to DnD, i think an additional problem/challenge for using a Delilah-motif monster is that the literary myths always seem to have this duality about the character (savior/oppressor) making them “characters” rather than monsters. Maybe I am underread, but what are the best literary representations that lean into the horror: Succubus as pure monster for the thrill of being scared? It almost seems like the payoff of the succubus myth is not fear (or laughs, as you suggest) but titillation, which again makes it a tricky play to make at the table unless everyone’s on board for that.
Additionally, if the payoff on the Delilah monster is supposed to be horror, how does that land for female players? I think almost everyone can get a jump scare from falling into a pit with snakes. But if one could draw a matrix of player gender, character gender, sexual orientation, and map out what emotional impact the Delilah-motif monster might have, I think it would be all patchy. As with “Beauty and the Beast” etc, the lasting and broad literary appeal seems to require people of various genders to be able to project themselves on different parts of the story, and you maybe don’t get that when it’s reduced to a monster.
So, I guess my constructive hypothesis would be to try creating (and playing) Delilah-motif creatures as NPCs that encompass the ambiguity and dual nature of the myths, rather as trap monsters that start and end with ensnaring the (semi-willing) hetero-masculine player.
Does it make sense to give the player a choice? Like, give in to seduction and get +2 WIS, -2STR?
Or, in the vein of fear of aging, you may choose to run off with succubus and then your character immediately advances to Name Level, gains a stronghold and followers, and is too burdened with the domain management game to be able to go rough it in the woods with their squad anymore.
I would agree with this but by and large I would hope adults are able to tailor things for their group of players. What works for a table of crusty forty-something men is going to be different for one with a mix of sexes/ages. Trap monsters will likely be treated as a great laugh by the former. Not so much by the latter. Adjust accordingly!
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