I think what I appreciate most in D&D is bathos: perhaps the overwhelming narrative characteristic of the game, insofar as it has any such characteristics. Random encounter tables, rolling dice in the open, taking results as they come, and resolute avoidance of illusionism or pallete-shifting of any kind - all of these elements of 'old school' D&D play contribute to the development of the bathetic.
People who like "narrative" games and prefer things to make "dramatic sense" usually miss this.
An example of bathos from last night's game: Eki Ulele had just survived the most difficult and bloody encounter the party had yet had, in which 8 bandits and 2 hireling retainers had died and one of the PCs dying. He had been through, in many ways, his toughest moment. He had faced down the bandit leader and bluffed him into retreat, then survived a nerve-wracking chase through a pitch black forest, with no weapons or magic and only flasks of oil to aid him. He had led the opposition away from his wounded friends, buying them time to escape.
He survived all this, and if I was interested in trying to develop the "plot" of the campaign, as if it was a story, this would have been a defining episode for his character - the making of him. He would have gone on to better things, and grown as a person because of what happened to him at the bandit lair. Or perhaps he would have died bravely in one final showdown with the bandit leader, going out in a blaze of glory, remembered for ever more.
But the dice said otherwise: the next day he got an unlucky result and had a wilderness encounter; he got an unluckier result when it turned out to be giant bees; and an even unluckier result when he failed his surprise roll. He died a meaningless and ignoble death alone in the forest, stung to death by mindless insects. Bathos.
Yet this has its own narrative sense. Bathos and absurdity are proud and important traditions in drama and comedy. They may not be "emotionally satisfying", but they have their own value. The next time somebody makes out that you should fiddle or ignore dice rolls in the name of maintaining some sort of narrative consistency, remind them of this: "I prefer it bathetic, darling".
Yeah, I hate bathos. When it comes down to it, it's one of the main reasons I steer clear of old school games. If I wanted to grind away for hours, trying desperately to do something worthwhile, only to die ignobly and forgotten, I'd stick with real life.
ReplyDeleteSome of us would say that it just makes the moments when you do achieve something worthwhile that much more memorable and valuable.
DeleteMaybe you were just joking but to me, every struggle and interaction in the game itself, win or lose, is "worthwhile". My player accomplishing a thing or not is not the only source of fun.
DeleteI wouldn't disagree with that. By "worthwhile" I guess I meant "awesome" or however it is the kids put it these days.
DeleteBathos has its place in gaming but just like the narrative sense of drama to which you refer, having too much of it (or exclusively focusing on it) can be as detrimental an experience as a game where the need for narrative coherence has taken over. I have to admit, while some of my fondest gaming memories probably due include moments of bathos, most of my negative gaming memories are all about bathos....I remember a Deserts of Desolation campaign with a ridiculously high party kill ratio where I had been rolling up a replacement character and wasn't even finished when the DM rolled the wandering monster of the night and a giant scorpion finished my guy off before he was even complete. I quit that campaign not long after; it wasn't what I was looking for. Like Marshall says, bathos is effectively a better statement about the sad truth of real life, and there's nothing wrong with wanting a little meaningful coherence in our fictitious narratives.
ReplyDeleteI tend to think of it like this: bathos is the defining anti-narrative effect which all beginning PCs must struggle to overcome and eventually negate by virtue of establishing their meaningful purpose in the campaign. The effect of bathos on a character should be inversely proportionate to the merit and depth over time of that PC...though I think it should never as a risk go away 100%, just to keep players on their toes.
Wait! I just figured out what was bothering me about your article. Bathos is still a part of the narrative process----you aren't comparing two opposing forces here. From a literary perspective the use of bathos is still a planned and willful part of any narrative arc, not just something that "happens." An author chooses bathos as an expression or statement about their tale and the characters within. However, what you are describing (and what happens in many a game) is more capricious and arbitrary....bathos, yes, but there's a world of difference between an author who juxtaposes the greatness of his tale or character with the fickle nature of life through the use of bathos, and a game where a random decision process and arbitrary dice rolls have determined that your hero's fate is an ignominious failure.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with either process, of course, but for either the "bathos as narrative tool" to work or "bathos as accidental byproduct of random rolls" to be meaningful you must have a counterbalance. If all fiction relied on bathos we would get tired of fiction after a while. If all random charts in D&D led to capricious and painful ends then yes, we would be facing a doomed hobby. However, a good scenario with decent wandering monster tables and random elements always includes the opposite end of the spectrum. In your example, the soon-to-be-dead hero could have gotten "wealthy merchant" or "friendly shephard" for an encounter, presumably...or even simply no encounter. Likewise, he could have surprised the bees instead of the other way around. So bad luck led him to his end, but it could have been quite different. It's really that element....chance.....that I think distinguishes D&D as a game that constructs the narrative as it goes from other RPGs that might try to force a narrative style. Bathos in this case is simply a potential byproduct of the process. So yeah....I would agree with what you are saying, so long as the scenario's random elements weren't all weighted exclusively toward bathos as a foregone conclusion.
Yes, this is what I mean. Random elements will often result in bathos. It isn't deliberate - but it will happen, and happen often. It would certainly have been possible for Eki Ulele to have come across somebody helpful, or neutral, rather than hostile, and yes, he could have surprised the bees and made his mistake. Nothing is assumed.
DeleteBathos is a tricky word. My understanding is that it refers to an artist's failed attempt to sustain a lofty tone and that he is unaware he has introduced a bum note so the overall effect is ridiculous. In other words an event depicted by an artist would be bathetic because the artist has made a mistake. An event in the absence of artistic intent and artistic failure is not bathetic. I would be happy to be corrected on this.
ReplyDeleteI think that is the original meaning, but it is well established as a comedic or dramatic device. Joseph Heller uses it all the time in Catch-22, for instance.
DeleteNoisms, If you have ever read Naked and The Dead by Norman Mailer?if not you should read it. It is a great work of literature and without spoilers would relate greatly to this post. If you have read it you will probably understand what I mean.
ReplyDeleteNo, but it doesn't surprise me - bathos is often used in war literature, probably because it communicates the absurdity and randomness of conflict. Catch-22 is a great example but the World War I war poets also often used it as a device too.
DeleteToo much Bathos is like too much of anything. Too many old-schoolers get caught up in this, and it reminds us that a little narrative quality can be welcome in a game that is played on a regular schedule using the same setting and rules. A game that is entirely filled with random events and deaths where players feel their contributions are meaningless generally doesn't last long. A little bit of random tragedy can keep a player on his toes; too much and they cease to care or treat the game seriously.
ReplyDeleteYou won't find me disagreeing with that, but you're conflating random events and deaths with players feeling their contributions are meaningless. Eki Ulele still made a big contribution - he helped his friends escape.
DeleteThis bathos through random results is such a crucial ingredient, and equating it with The Absurd was revelatory. It underlines the importance of viewing the results of a D&D session as a narrative best interpreted through hindsight, "story as memoir", and not crafted in a forward-looking manner.
ReplyDeleteI'd turn off the TV if I thought sports, pro baseball or football games, were scripted. The thrill of watching a sport is the confluence of skill, choice, and chance that come together to define the performance. It's only in hindsight we can attach additional meaning to some of the key events: "I bet they didn't know their offense would fail to score the rest of the game; that goal line stand in the 3rd quarter ended up being the turning point of the entire game." D&D is the same.
For the critics of randomness: of course a game completely resolved through random results would be nonsensical and absurd; it would completely obviate player choice. Old school games require player agency; the players learn enough about the world to make educated choices and plans; randomness is constrained to conflict resolution within these bounds. Thus transpires events like the post, wherein a character survives numerous harrowing experiences, only to fail later in an Absurd manner. And look - we're still talking about it. The legend of Eki Ulele and the killer bees.
Yes, and clever players will ultimately learn how to avoid situations in which random events will operate in potentially vicious ways.
DeleteAs Eki Ulele's player, I'm going to be thinking about it for a long time! :)
Delete...avoid situations in which random events will operate in potentially vicious ways.
Such as playing with you as DM! ;)
The D&D movie was terrible in many ways, but additionally, I think they missed an opportunity to communicate this aspect of the game and create (without any great expense) an innovative movie. I read somewhere that Gygax's and the Blume's favorite Vance story ends with the protagonist falling off of a cliff on his way to complete the 9th of 9 quests (or some such).
ReplyDeleteYeah, I can't think of any specific examples off hand, but Vance strikes me as an author with a finely tuned sense of the bathetic.
DeleteYes I was thinking Vance too...
DeleteI try to draw parallels with sitting down to play a board game. What are the most popular games, the most fun games? In my little corner of the world, the least popular games are the ones where you can figure out the best strategies and still lose. Coming in a close second would be where the best strategy is easy to determine and the game plays out the same over and over again. Randomness is a good factor in keeping the game fresh but when overdone, it starts to get into the realm of why even play if anyone can win simply from the roll of a die.
ReplyDeleteThought-provoking stuff
ReplyDeleteArgh, I'm really of two minds on this one. On the one hand, bathos is important and can give us some of our most memorable gaming moments. On the other hand, the death of Eki Ulele is an example of when I find it extremely dispiriting. To paraphrase Badmike's comment, bathos at the wrong time can be a bad thing.
I'm all for die rolls in the open, etc. All the rolls in my ongoing Pendragon campaign have been made in the open and the game is much stronger for it. On the other hand, I like a good narrative thrust. The idea of systems that use Luck Points/Fate Points/Joss/whatever to allow for some level of player control appeal to me. I've also been known to allow for the occassional reroll or omission of an indicated event when I and the rest of the group agree that the result would be just too bathetic.
I like absurdism, but in small doses. Maybe that's somewhat of a determinant of where you fall on the Bathos Scale(TM).
I'm trying to be a purist about these things. The players do get control in "pure" OD&D - but the control takes place at a step back from the level of fate points. Instead, it's about controlling situations so that random dice rolls either don't come into it, or won't have much of an impact if they do.
DeleteDon't get me wrong, I did think when I rolled the d6 and got a random encounter for Eki Ulele the next morning when he was alone in the forest, "Maybe I'll just read that as no result". I did have my doubts. But then I went for it. I know Nathan, Eki's player, was a little annoyed, but he took it in his stride and I think, ultimately, the game is richer for moments like that.
Actually, I wasn't annoyed really. There was something a bit Coen Brothers about it all: my character was an obnoxious, inconsistent jack-ass who thought that he was the leader of those around him because of his high caste, when in truth he was quite weak.
DeleteDistracting bad guys so that others could get away could be seen as heroic, a personal epiphany, and then to get stung to death by a Giant Bee with no-one around to help him, save him or even know that he had died seemed like a beautiful end really. The game is most definitely richer for those moments.
I think there's an important part of playing D&D where everyone has to step back from their egos?/desire to "win" and realize "holy shit so-and-so just died in an lurid, ironic manner that's actually really grotesque and hilarious if you look at it as an outsider" and than everyone laughs their ass off at the bathos.
ReplyDeleteI think that's what Melan/Gabor Lux referred to as "learning to appreciate the plop! factor of D&D"
I like roleplaying games for all the ways in which they are not like most books and movies, and bathos is a part of that.
ReplyDeleteThis is an excellent point - personally I always think of bathos as the enemy, the overwrought cheese that make something a 'serious elf game' and hence annoying. Yet narratively you're right on point. As a GM one has to always remember it works both ways - the party avoids the trapped corridor, suprises the dangerous TPK beast and cuts it down walking calmly into a treasure horde. One has to just shrug with this, because as you point out, the giant bees will have their revenge.
ReplyDelete"The giant bees will have their revenge."
DeleteLOL!
After what happened to Eki Ulele, I'm worried that my next PCs will just wander into endless hives of giant bees...
DeleteGood article. On the one hand, I like the fact that random chance can bring unexpected outcomes that you would never have planned; they create a kind of realistic feel; and yeah, they can lead to the giant bee type situation. On the other hand, as a GM I like to always try to give a warning shot first. There's no "rocks fall, you die" moment without a "hmmm, that cave looks a bit unstable". Unrealistic, and perhaps less bathetic, but a lot less annoying, to me at least.
ReplyDeleteDepends. I think giving warnings can reward lack of caution. Sometimes a player just gets killed by something that is clearly his own fault.
DeleteWell yeah, ok. There doesn't need to be an official warning if it's obvious that doing something would be dangerous. The definition of "obvious" may vary, of course. Is wandering in the forest alone obviously dangerous? Maybe.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, my players rarely lack caution. If anything they err in the other direction, so it's worth me putting in the effort to make them feel like they won't be killed arbitrarily!