I blame Edmund. In Planet Narnia, I discover a hitherto-unknown (to me) theme of medieval thought which insisted on the primordial forest, Broceliande, as a source in itself of creation and goodness, and held this in opposition against the City, understood as an emanation of evil - as, for example, with Nineveh, 'the Great City' (not to be 'pitied' according to the book of Jonah).
This is deeply evocative and interesting and forces us to imagine the D&D wilderness in a totally different way: what if the PCs are born from the wilderness and adventure in the city, thus flipping the entire script when it comes to what 'overland' adventuring is thought to mean?
Here, the city is transformed from a base of operations to a place of wickedness, strangeness and danger, which becomes thereby the locus for adventure as a kind of urbanisation of the megadungeon. Here, the wilderness - which could be a forest but could just as well be the desert, the mountains, the marsh, or even the sea - is home, and the urban landscape is the place that is raided for treasure and glory.
Possibilities:
- The most obvious and I think easiest to conceptualise: the PCs are either wilderness-dwelling human types (either stereotypical 'noble savages' or druids) or else representatives of sylvan/'natural' races, whether they be elves, pixies, gnomes, whatever (or their equivalents in other biomes). They seek to infiltrate the City so as to steal its riches?
- The more interesting (to me): the PCs are emanations of nature - nature spirits, if you will, or even fae beings - who intrude for purposes other than riches or magic as we would understand, but in the service of some other motive. Capturing dreams? Gaining the knowledge of 'science'?
- The PCs as nature-terrorists: either of the above, but the motive for infiltration is, say, to free captive animals, or commit acts of sabotage and assassination against the literal or metaphorical machineries of the City, or maybe to subvert it by implanting seeds - again, literal or metaphorical - of the natural world within.
One clarification - Jonah, the prophet, does not pity Nineveh, but God does, and he questions Jonah on that point.
ReplyDeleteGah! Yes.
DeleteThis is exactly the kind of scenario recommended as an introductory adventure for Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne - you are a group of backwoods tribal rubes thrust into the decadence of great Jakalla. Sooner rather than later you are likely to fall into its literal underworld, the Schliemannesque layer-cake of the halls and chambers of previous Jakallas. The dungeon, as they say, is the city.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that actually had crossed my mind and I forgot to include it.
DeleteAnother possibility:
ReplyDeleteThe PC are inhabitants of a castle or fiefdom on the edge of civilization.
The conflict between Castle (castellans) x Cities (burghers) is a common theme in the Middle Ages. I like the idea of having both the city and the wilderness as places for adventure, with the small communities being the safe places.
Nice idea!
DeleteYou go to the city to steal children of course.
ReplyDeleteThis had crossed my mind but ultimately a bit too sinister for me. A great idea for a novel though (presumably it has been done) - and sort of the idea behind Changeling: The Lost, I suppose.
DeleteThis takes me back to some Appendix N material, particularly Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser exploring Lankhmar, and also the stories of Thieves' World and its city of Sanctuary. The "Dangerous City" trope is well-established in fantasy. I would hesitate to treat it as a straight-up mega-dungeon, but certainly as an environment where many encounters and adventures can take place. I think your idea of sylvan and rural PCs travelling to the city not just to find adventure and wealth but to stop the corruption and evil eminating from the city and thus protecting their idyllic homes is definitely an interesting idea. Is it civilization itself which is the threat, which harkens back to Law (civilization) vs Chaos (the wilderness), or is there something malevolent deep within the city that needs to be excised that has turned the city from merely a rough place that has no time for beauty or nature into a centre of evil with tendrils of corruption reaching out to threaten the PCs and their homes? Evil cults? Evil politicians? Evil crime lords who run large parts of the city? Maybe an unholy alliance of all three.
ReplyDeleteYes, although I rather like the idea of there being something intrinsically evil about the urban landscape itself. Which might be something that a nature-dweller would realistically and justifiably believe.
DeleteA fourth possibility: this focus on "Civilization and its Discontents" that you're describing is, in a way, related to the very basis of the noir genre (remember Marlowe at the same time laughing at the knight on the staianed window and at the same time admiting he longs for that?). Wich means that nearly all cyberpunk rpgs actually run on that, or do so at least by aproximation.
ReplyDeleteTrue, although that feels to me like more of an internal critique than an external one.
DeleteWhen TSR published Lankhmar in the 80s this is precisely what our campaign became, pretty much by accident: an attempted assignation of the overlord sealed the gates like the hotel California , you could come in but not get out. Our inn, and eventual real estate, the safe "town," the slums the caves of chaos, the nobles vault of the drow, etc. Our party
ReplyDeletelike the warriors ah la the movie of the same name. It was no grand plan but crushing around that beautiful map was a hoot for everyone. We were geography close to the action, but it was also close to us. Only time I've played where nobody had to buy a mule an the half-orc cleric/assain didn't stick out like a sore thumb. Tombs under the floorboards, forgotten temples at the end of the alley, and pass a wedding party on the way home with the loot. Highlight of my young rpg years. This is what I plan on taking my urban naive players through in your yellow city starting next month.....
I've always thrown around in my mind an idea of hacking the old evangelical "Adventure Learning System", Dragonraid, which definitely has inklings of this within. Also of note is a book which was great in my childhood, "Tales of the Kingdom", wherein the titular kingdom is actually the hidden "Great Park", opposed to the fiery and oppressive "Enchanted City" from which many of the inhabitants of the Great Park escaped.
ReplyDeleteBoth feature City-Delves (which occasionally become Dungeon-Delves), the titular Dragon Raids etc. Where the inhabitants of the idyllic woodland are sent to the city, not because the city is good, or to try to destroy it, but to rescue willing people out of it (in, of course, an obvious allegory of evangelism). I really like the idea of a big baroque horrible city mashup of london, new york, rome, vegas, and babylon (all being run by evil hidden demon dragon idols beneath every supermall and casino) being the adventure location, is all I really want to say. I specifically think of "Le Antichità Romane" for visual reference, but really anything by Piranesi would do.
Yes, Piranesi! Excellent call.
DeleteOh, so nothing to do with https://sirpoley.tumblr.com/post/173927917979/on-towns-in-rpgs-part-3-towns-are-forests ;-)
ReplyDeleteI think there are several works of literature that create great places for a scenario like that – one I have in fact GMed before and one I would like to:
ReplyDelete1. Deepgate from "Scar Night" by Alan Campbell. I DMed this - my players were a group of Heshette infiltrators coming from the desert tribes to help bring doom to the dark city hanging on chains above the abyss of their evil god Ulcis. The book itself is written in a way that makes Deepgate a dungeon anyways, much of the action taking place on rooftops and in hidden tunnels inside the temple.
2. The Bas-Lag books by China Miéville. New Cobruzon is a dangerous and labyrinthine place and there are plenty of outsiders who want to go there for the riches or would like to see it stopped from destroying everything in its mercantile path. Hell, in Perdido Street Station the characters traversing the city are basically dungeoneering and it's their home...
Interesting observation about Bas-Lag - I hadn't thought of it. I actually don't like Perdido Street Station very much. I enjoyed the other ones much more. But I can see your point.
DeletePlaying on that theme...
ReplyDelete- what if there were no random encounters in the wilderness, only in the city?
- or, what if there are random encounters in the wilderness, but they are all from civilisation? i.e. cities are the source of violence and danger and they spread out to the wilderness. You'll never encounter a griffin or bugbear but you might meet a bunch of slavers from the local city out looking for victims.
Yes, good idea.
DeleteI did muse on an 'inverted WHF Empire' idea once: https://worldbuildingandwoolgathering.blogspot.com/2020/01/fields-of-light.html
ReplyDeleteThough that turned into more 'honest ploughmen' than 'primordial forest'. There, the necessity of sending men-at-arms/adventurers into the evil/fallen cities was 'keeping the bridges open'. Thinking of that, we get to the Battle of Beruna in Prince Caspian and the ford/bridge there.
Sounds like Monsters, Monsters then which is inverse Tunnels and Trolls - PCs are monster species dungeon bashing in human settlements and constructions.
ReplyDeleteOr like the satirical Violence (rpg): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_(role-playing_game)
DeleteMan, the 90s were a time...
A flavor of Robin Hood goes here as well. All is not well in Nottingham, the good king is gone. Only the woods are safe.
ReplyDelete