Is it possible actually to be Lawful Evil?
This question, oddly enough, gets us to the heart of the central conundrum of 20th century legal philosophy. After the Second World War, jurisprudential thought went through some soul-searching with regard to the relationship between law and morality. To oversimplify: does law have to have some sort of connection to morality in order to be valid law?
This debate chiefly concerned the status of the law of the Nazi regime. The West German authorities were faced with a conundrum in the period after the war when their country was undergoing a complete institutional restructuring and denazification process. Should they behave as though the laws which the Nazis had made were valid? Or should they behave as though no Nazi-made laws had any effect, and simply act as though the civil and criminal codes of the German state as they had existed prior to 1933 had continued to be the really valid law all along?
The best way to make this abstract-sounding debate concrete is to briefly described the 'Nazi informer' case, made famous by a debate between HLA Hart and Lon Fuller that is well-known to law students everywhere. To cut a long story short, this concerned a woman who had wanted to rid herself of her husband. In order to expeditiously get him out of the picture, she reported him to the authorities in 1944, accusing him of having made statements inimical to the welfare of the Third Reich (in this case, derogatory remarks about Hitler). This was a criminal offence at that time, punishable by death, although the husband was eventually sent to serve in the front (presumably because at that point the regime was fighting for its life and needed every able-bodied man it could get).
After the war was over the wife was indicted for the offence of 'unlawful deprivation of liberty', which was listed in the German Criminal Code of 1871, and was found guilty. She may have been doing her 'lawful' duty in respect of the 'law' which had existed at the material time. But that was not valid law, because it had been an outrage 'to the sound conscience and sense of justice of all decent human beings'. She could not plead in her defence that in 1944 she had been acting lawfully, because she had not: the 'law' in question (regarding statements inimical to the welfare of the Third Reich) had not been law at all.
This might sound intuitively like the right outcome, but there is a strong rule-of-law argument from the other direction - namely, that this was a retrospective application of law. It isn't fair, or just, to punish somebody for doing something that at the material time had not been prima facie unlawful. The wife might have behaved immorally, but that's not the same thing as saying she had done something unlawful. The answer, as you will have noticed, really just hinges on what one thinks about the nature of law itself. If law is valid because it is validly made on its own terms, then the wife had done nothing legally wrong, because the Nazi law in question had indeed been validly made on its own terms. If, on the other hand, law is only valid if it accords with some underlying moral order, then she had committed the old 1871 offence, because that was valid in the moral sense, whereas the Nazi law that had appeared in the interim was not.
Put more straightforwardly: can law be evil, or is law only law if it has moral content or rests on moral norms?
For Hart (and the other legal positivists, of which he was one) law can indeed be 'evil' in the sense that law is law as long as it is recognised as such. This does not mean that law should not, ideally, reflect morality or that there is no underlying moral order. It just means that in identifying whether law is valid, what is relevant is whether it has been made in accordance with what is recognised to be the test for validity within the legal system itself. For Fuller, law cannot be 'evil' in the sense that law is connected with morality, and immoral law is an oxymoron; it law is not founded on morality then it is not law at all.
Fuller, though, did not base his reasoning on a substantive idea of morality, but rather a procedural one. Law, he said, was only law if it was made in accordance with law's 'inner morality'. This was not a matter of determining whether its rules were right or wrong. Rather, it was a matter of determining whether they had been made in the right way. This meant that law must be (1) of general application; (2) promulgated publicly; (3) prospective rather than retrospective in application; (4) intelligible to those addressed by it; (5) consistent; (6) practicably possible to comply with; (7) stable; and (8) ‘congruent’ (meaning that there should not be a gap between the law as it exists on paper and how it is applied in practice).
These eight principles, Fuller suggested, were important because they were the means by which respect for the subject of law - the human individual - could be enshrined. If law possesses these qualities, it is predictable, stable, and clear, and people know where they stand with it. It gives its subjects a fair opportunity to know, in advance of doing something, whether or not it will be lawful. If, on the other hand, 'law' does not possess those qualities (i.e., if it is of selective application; if it is secret; if it applies retrospectively; if it is unintelligible; if it is inconsistent; etc.) then that is tantamount to saying that those making the 'law' are really just governing by whim, which is to say, not making law at all but ruling by fiat or decree.
Fuller's test for whether something is really 'law' or not therefore rested on a connection to morality, but he was careful about how he framed what 'morality' meant. Law's morality was not substantive. It was only to do with how it was made. What makes law, law, is that it consists of rules which possess his eight characteristics.
However, Fuller was also clearly of the view that if law is (1) of general application; (2) promulgated publicly; (3) prospective rather than retrospective in application; (4) intelligible to those addressed by it; (5) consistent; (6) practicably possible to comply with; (7) stable; and (8) ‘congruent’ - which is to say, if it is procedurally moral - then in practical terms the law that gets made will tend to be substantively moral as well. Tyrants and dictators do not make law possessing these characteristics, for the good reason that law in this sense will constrain their actions by forcing them to rule fairly and to account for themselves to the public. Law, in other words, will by default in practice end up being connected to an underlying 'external' morality simply because that is what procedurally correct law will ineluctably produce.
Ever since he was writing, though, his critics have argued against this conclusion, calling it naive. It is perfectly possible, in the eyes of these critics, for law to possess Fuller's eight ideal characteristics but for it still to produce immoral outcomes or even to be twisted for immoral ends. And, indeed, some would even argue that the eight characteristics in question themselves will tend to be a barrier to social justice because they prevent lawmakers acting flexibly and responsively in order to do what is right in the name of higher values - equality, fairness, etc.
Is it, then, possible to be Lawful Evil? Is law valid law so long as it is validly made in terms which the legal system recognises? Or is law only valid if it aligns with what is morally right or just? If legal morality is merely procedural, is it possible for it to produce 'evil' effects, or will the laws that are produced end up being moral by dint of the process by which they were created?
To bring us back full circle: was the wife in the Nazi informer case, when she dobbed in her husband to the authorities, being Lawful Evil? Or something else?
To compress things immensely in order to go immediately to the discussion - and even this compression will turn to be too long - will have to brake in two parts, sorry: I think that in "classical d&d" alignment terms the wife was actually being lawful neutral - following the rules as a reified inescapale thing, regardless of morality. The difference between LE, NE and CE is perhaps nicely encapsulated by tose funny printed names for alignment combinations in the AD&D 2nd Edition PHB from 1989. Yep, theres a lot of crap on that book, but here and there you get a glimpse some stuff that could be further developed into something nice. The "morality combo" names are one of those. Lets repeat them here (at least through my wonky translation from my Brazillian portuguese copy of the PHB - bear with me and correct the names on the comments, please): Just (LG), Orderly (LN), Vile (LE), Kindly (NG), Neutral (NN), Egotistical (NE), Honourable (CG), Fickle (CN) and Cruel (CE).
ReplyDeleteSure, crushing the entirety of the moral spectrum into a word is asking too much, but as general guidelines go, it can give us a few ideas. The diference between Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil is then the diference between being "Vile" and being "Cruel". Lets try to go into judeo-christian moralist mythopoeia to make things simple, if only because that is the most immediate cultural frame of reverence - Ravenloft does that a lot, for example: Satan is evil as an absolute, encompassing all forms of being nasty. Mmmkay, so far so good. Now, that bit about the devil being the unmaker would be "Cruel" bit: destroying warlords raiding and killing. The part about the devil asthe tainter would be the "Vile" bit: perverting things into mockeries of themselves to prove that creation is flawed. And pecadillos done behind closed doors are the "Egotistical" variety of immorality, little crimes, perhaps even invisible ones, done simply because it was expedient.
In this case, a dictatorial regime is "Vile": it perverts order and perverts even the idea of good - imagine an old Spanish marm kneeling on Franco's tomb and crying, as if she was a panic stricken nun: the archetype of niceness, the beatifical granny, turned facist. Or LaVey's Church of Satan, mimicking all the rituals and, technically, refusing none - nothing is destroyed, everything is assimilated, perverted, turned. On the other Chaos as per Michael Moorcock, and as utter chaos, unchecked by 'The Balance' is "Cruel": change for the sake of violence, unmaking eternally. Nothing is fixed, everything dissolves, all things are rended to pieces. And orgy of the ID, to the point of eventually dying of hunger because you have eaten alive all farmers and drunk their blood. To reduce it to a joke: LE wants to conquer the world, CE wants to destroy the world. Both will probably be ok with remaking the world to their image as a final result, but the methods are different. Saruman is LE. Dracula is CE. At least 1973 Christopher Lee Dracula, that is.
Part 2 of the same comment: To go back to the wife and to present a question: most people living under a LE regime probably are not LE. Perhaps, LE is the most elitistic morality of all: only the guy on the throne actually get to be (fully?) LE, because the entire ethos is My Will Be Done, or rather, I Am Law (as opposite to CE nihilistic point of view that there is no law, "Do What You Will and You Shall be The Whole of The Law"). Maybe his military apparatus is CE. His bureaucrats are likely NE. But most people under him are probably going to be NN - "it is not my problem, its the law", "im only following orders". The wife cant be properly LE, because she is not the source of the will, she is following another - she is a conditioned beast, mimicking an imposed external moral, not the active chessplayer. She cant be CE because she is not taking a immediate gain on the destruction of her husband, not even as perveted sadistic jubblies. She is not NE because what she did cant possibly be simplest, dirtiest route out of the problem. She is LN, because she followed the law to the letter, no matter its content, out of fear of other consequences of the mechanized state apparatus, wich she sees as all powerful and inescapable. To put it as Bryant says to Deckard, "you aint a cop, pal, you're little people!".
ReplyDeleteOn this matter, check the interesting difference between "Just" and "Honourable". "Just" as in the Knight that does the immaculate rescuing by the book, fully inside the cultural and social mores of the civilisation he represents. "Honourable" as in per "that strange Foreigner that does noble things, even if through his weird inner code that is imperscrutable to us". Lancelot is LG. Queequeeg migh be CE? To Ishmael's eyes, at least?
Aaaaand that opens the entirely separate can of worms that one alignment can be seen as another by another culture but...Thats beside the point for our immediate purposes.
That, at least, is my take, so that it remains a game instead of going full Nuremberg Trial.
I mean, Queequeeg would be CG. I gotta stop writting this flux of consciousness things at 1 am.
DeleteThanks for writing all this - I enjoyed reading it. But one thing has been overlooked. The point is that the wife was not just 'obeying the law' unquestioningly. She reported her husband because she wanted to get rid of him. It was a malicious act. This is what (arguably) makes it Lawful Evil.
DeleteMy problem is that 'vileness', 'egotism' and 'cruelty', while I accept they are different, conceptually overlap and might be said to have the same basic root. If the devil is 'perverting law into a mockery of itself', then isn't he actually just being....chaotic evil?
My preference for alignment is to just have Law and Chaos as the sides and leave good and evil up to the players to figure out. I am not a relativist, I have very strong opinions on the matter, but they're personal and I am alright with letting my players make personal choices without turning my game into some sort of morality play.
ReplyDeleteIt was really interesting reading your thoughts. I have no education in law but I find the philosophy of law that I've been exposed to casually really fascinating.
But to your question, I have to say that I think a law absolutely can be evil. I think though that you've got to deal with evil law on it's own terms, through the systems that make the law work and in a certain way that means that the consequences of evil law are very hard to mitigate, for the sake of the integrity of the entire system. This makes evil law a really serious and pernicious kind of evil.
But if you ask me to define evil law, my definition is going to be very personal. And that's where it becomes difficult - I talk to my students about the difference between your personal ethics and the morals of society. I use the people who objected the the Nazi regime as an example - people who did not think it was morally good to exterminate the jews or the disabled. I do this to help to make it clear that there is a difference between legal and good, and between law and justice. Ideally we'd want them both to be the same thing.
No doubt 'law' can have evil effects (even evil intentions). But if it does, is it really valid law? That's really the issue. Does it have to be obeyed? The Nazi example tends to focus minds, although it is a tricky subject because for the entire period they were in power in Germany, the rule of law was suspended due to a state of emergency that never went away.
DeleteBased solely on what you've written here, the immediate problem I see is that in order to function as law, Fuller's laws must still fulfil Hart's criterion. If nobody agrees with Fuller's criteria or nobody recognises a law made in accordance with them, then that law is clearly not in any real sense a law. Hart's laws have no reciprocal requirement, so Fuller's laws are a subset of Hart's laws and Fuller's argument simply a normative suggestion for how laws should be written, enacted and obeyed. Since you've given Fuller's principles but not his reasoning for them, they're unanswerable. So I'm forced to award the point to Hart, with his descriptive definition, on sheer semantic grounds: yes, it is possible to have an unjust law.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean. What Fuller would respond to this is that yes, in *theory* if nobody recognised a law made in accordance with his requirements then it still would not have the effect of being law. But in practice it is hard to imagine how that could be the case. In the real world, how could you have a competent legislator making law possessing his requirements and people behave as though it is not law, other than in a pure anarchy which could not realistically exist?
DeleteThe other thing a substantive natural lawyer (not Fuller) would say is that whether nor not people recognise it, there is an underlying moral order in the universe which determines what is or is not right and wrong. If a law is made in accordance with that moral order then even if nobody recognises it as law, it still is.
I think laws are simply rules that a government expects its people to abide by. They can't have morality because they are things, not intelligent creatures. Only people can have morals. What laws can do is show you the morals of the people who created them. The good thing is that as a society's morals change, they can change the law with them. e.g. slavery is ok; then it is not ok. You don't have to wear a bike helmet; now you do have to wear one.
ReplyDeleteOver a long enough period of time you should expect the laws to change back and forth multiple times as society's beliefs change. Some might change slowly and rarely, like murder, and some might change often, like speeding infringements.
I thought I had heard that an important principle of law was that you could only be tried under the laws in place at the time the action was committed?
To go to DND, I would make it about the game world so it is game-able. This game world usually includes other planes and dimension. I prefer simple Lawful, Neutral and Chaos, where all humans are lawful as they follow rules they create, animals are neutral (and Druids) and chaos is the creatures from horrible outer dimensions that don't operate in any way we can comprehend.
Using the AD&D axes, I would have Good as helping people, Neutral as self-interest and Evil as hurting people (actively enjoying or seeking out). Lawful as following the laws of the society they live in and Chaotic as acting as they like (anarchic).
'I thought I had heard that an important principle of law was that you could only be tried under the laws in place at the time the action was committed?'
DeleteYes, that was Hart's criticism of the German court's decision in the 'Nazi informer' case. But it's a thorny problem, because the court's reasoning was precisely that the 'laws in place at the time the action was committed' were not the Nazi ones, because they were not valid law! ;)
If I may throw my 2p in...I think there is an ambiguity in the term "law." On the one hand, it is a rule, established by a competent authority and, in the best administrative case, satisfying Fuller's eight requirements. On the other, there is Law, an ideal expression of a solution to a social problem that respects humanity and promotes flourishing.
ReplyDeleteI think it is possible to be Lawful Evil under the first definition of law. It requires nothing more than to apply an ill-considered social law to produce an evil outcome. We see this all the time with commercial laws in the US that were designed to protect the consumer but perversely permit industry to perpetrate evil. That's applying the law to enable evil. You may argue that I'm relying on an equivocation, but I reply that I'm following a long tradition summed up in, "the letter kills."
However, by a parallel argument, there is no such thing as Lawful Evil in the second sense of Law, since as you already pointed out, it is a contradiction in terms that a law should not attempt to emulate a Law.
In summary, Lawful Evil exists in the gap between law and Law. Since it seems to me that D&D's poorly conceived alignment system refers to lowercase-law,* I conclude that yes, it is possible to be Lawful Evil.
*Because there is no authoritative Good in a system in which each alignment is an equal option, there can be no ideal of Law that produces that Good. Gygax would have had to suggest a different structure.
Your first paragraph is almost word for word what Michael Oakeshott says about law in 'On Human Conduct'.
DeleteThe danger is that 'solutions to social problems' can also (usually accidentally) also produce evil. So the gap between law and Law is not always the place where evil lies...
"Your first paragraph is almost word for word what Michael Oakeshott says about law in 'On Human Conduct'. "
DeleteI like him already.
The issue here is that in the "Alignment Chart" the very planes themselves are an alignment, essentially there IS a completely objective morality that the gods and the places that they live align to them, and souls of the dead travel to where they belong. The only real way to find out if this woman's action was Lawful Evil is to see where her soul ends up.
ReplyDeleteIn more practical terms, her intentions were selfish, to sacrifice others for her own gain. And she followed the letter of the law, not doing something on a whim, like murder. So I would say Lawful Evil.
What we need is a gate to the Seven Hells to see if we can find her... Now there's an idea for a campaign.
DeleteAh, how I miss jurisprudence class. And the wine we drank at it. That's how law school should be done. Anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt is notable that punishing the wife runs square into the idea that someone 'ought to have known' something. That itself offends a variety of legal principles (at least in Western jurisprudence). You ought to know the law is illegal and not follow it is...a take. It is also a take that encourages widespread disobedience of the law and enables legislatures to abrogate their duties by just going 'oh it's an old law nobody follows it anyway.'
Fuller's points 4, 5, and 8 are extremely frequent failure points in modern society. I wonder if we have any laws at all by his standard.
It is notable that the judge in that case was also charged and was acquitted. So apparently choosing to work for, enforce and embrace the evil legal system is ethical, while acting under it isn't. Quite a take.
Evil (especially in D&D terms) is about the reasons for things, not the goal. You can patronize an orphanage for good reasons, or for evil (see Jimmy Savile). Law is similar - you can follow the law selfishly and with the intent of bettering yourself where possible, or you can follow the law with the public good and helping others in mind.
Law is a lot like Terry Pratchett's comments on kings. The real king is the one who gets crowned, and the real law is the one that gets followed.
Yes, I take all your points here, but there is a strong rejoinder which is: yes, and wouldn't it have been a jolly good thing if there had been widespread disobedience of Nazi law? ;)
Delete'You ought to know the law is illegal and not follow it' is admittedly unfair if what is meant by that is that 'You ought to know the German Penal Code of 1871 still applies despite being told by the government that it doesn't'. But it is not so unfair if what is meant by it is, 'In any time or place, regardless of the law on the statute books, it's morally wrong to report your husband to the authorities for saying things that he hasn't said, knowing that it will result in a death sentence.'
Your periodic reminder that the horizontal axis of alignment space is a downright mess. If you obey a terrestrial or cosmic law, whose law? Or are you merely regular versus erratic in your personal behaviour? Or should that instead be spontaneous versus planned? And sometimes "lawful" societies are simply those with more complicated rules.
ReplyDeleteAnd to follow up, we see here why two-dimensional alignment is a tall oblong and not a square - good and evil is intuitively a stronger dimension than law and chaos. It would be a non-standard D&D world indeed that had paladins and devils banding together against the law-threatening alliance of those elves and gnolls. Very hard for lawful good folk to say "Well, you have done evil, but at least you used temporal lawful institutions (or disciplined personal style) to do it, so you're only half bad." Far more likely for those factors to be force multipliers, augmenting how much your evil should be opposed, much as the organizational talent of Nazi Germany was able to extend the scope of the Holocaust into unprecedented and repugnant realms.
ReplyDeleteCounterpoint, though: subscribing to a common lawful cause can, as nationalism often does, blind individually good people to evil deeds done in the name of that law. However, the same argument can be made for chaos, and then you are back trying to push the oblong down into a square, by reducing the scope of evil from "ends" to "means".
This is such a great point but now you have really made me want to create a D&D world in which paladins and devils do band together to fight elves and gnolls.
Deletequick thoughts:
ReplyDeletea) I'm not convinced that using a law (just or unjust or whatever) as an instrument of violence is inherently different from using anything else as an instrument of violence. reporting your husband to the nazis to get rid of him isn't fundamentally different from, say, telling your local violent sociopath that your husband was shit-talking them, in the hopes that you provoke them into killing him-- which isn't fundamentally different from just killing him with your bare hands, really. what might make this act "lawful evil" as opposed to any other alignment is the *intent* of the violence, rather than the particular form that violence takes.
b) I think the best undstanding of the L-C axis relates to one's relationship to overall social hierarchies, rather than governmental "laws." someone who has an essentially positive relationship to structures of hierarchal power is "lawful," whether that's the dictator of a country, a CEO of a company, a patriarch of a "traditional" sort of nuclear family, or a middle-school girl who runs the most popular clique on the playground. someone who has an essentially antagonistic relationship with those same systems of power is "chaotic." someone who's neutral is, well, neutral, being neither drawn to participate in hierarchal systems nor compelled to struggle against them.
c) therefore, imo, the woman's action might have been, hypothetically, motivated by any alignment. maybe she was just a sadist who wanted to see the man suffer for the lulz-- that's chaotic, or maybe neutral, and certainly evil. maybe she wanted to protect their young child from his abuse-- that's good, right? and it's a struggle against the patriarchal order, so arguably a chaotic action. maybe she needed to get rid of him for the sake of the organized crime ring they were both members of-- that's certainly a lawful action, and probably an evil one.
Good contribution.
DeleteIt is interesting how, even after all these years, there is such little consensus about what the D&D alignment system actually means, or even what its content is!
personally my *favorite* interpretation of the L-C axis is that it's just an incidental allegiance to one of two incomprehensible eldritch powers that happen to be using Earth as a minor front in an interdimensional hyper-war. both gods benefit from recruiting humans to serve them; some quirk in the L god's metaphysical ontology means it wants its followers to build cities and temples and such and such, the major rituals that its followers can perform to boost its power require large-scale infrastructure and organization and order; the C god doesn't particularly benefit from its followers doing this sort of thing the way the L god does, so *it* mostly instructs its followers to oppose and attack those same cities and empires and what have you, try and fuck over the L god's followers.
Deletehuman morality builds up around all this in a cargo-cult way, building up some grand mythology of a cosmic dichotomy of Law versus Chaos as some fundamental opppositional forces of the universe-- meanwhile on the "cosmic scale" the L god and the C god are probably just some bit players fighting over their own little corner of the multiverse... they're *not* fundamentally closer to the "ontological truth" of the fabric of reality than their human servants, they just happen to be billions of times as powerful as us here on the ground.
Law is Lawful bc it happens to align with the arbitrary interests of the L god and what it wants from its human followers. Chaos is Chaotic bc it happens to align with the arbitrary interests of the C god. everything else is downstream from that.
but that's maybe a little less satisfying than other potential answers
Sign me up for the noisms’s “A Paladin + Hell” campaign . . .
ReplyDeleteI cannot for the life of me figure out who made the initial post regarding this, but in essence their insight was looking at d&d alignments as a way of managing groups in a West Marches deal when Gary was running 6 days a week in his basement. Kind of a Red team, Gold team, Blue team kind of thing.
Within each of these you can have your legal “postures” – where in the process are you? Even Conan (or Cerebus the Aardvark) must take on the role of city administrator at various points along the way. All the same they remain members of Blue Squadron who “seek not beyond death.” It’s arguable whether the horizontal aspects of alignment are ultimately pulled according to their verticality – I mean, we pretend that elves are “lawful good” is just so they won’t sneak into your house in the middle of the night and snuff you (see AP+H above).
Law – Get into your 259 begats each leading inextricably to messianic death and resurrection. I dare say there is the whiff of a railroad (skillfully disguised, perhaps, within the tables) but the Thursday/Saturday night group likes this kind of thing – a little more heroic fantasy, a little more story-gamey.
Neutral – The problem solvers. A Lot of listening at door and tapping on walls. Resource managers. Wargamers. Monday/Wednesday.
Chaos – The fundamentally HOSTILE universe. This blog's famous “On Bathos” post. Fast, cheap, and out of control. Tuesday/Friday night group.
My duckduckgo search for “What alignment is Pontius Pilate?" alas and disappointedly doesn’t yield any results.