Put it this way - javelin throwers would have a really hard time hitting individual targets if they were using their skills in anger.
Compare this with a cricket fielder going for a run out. Usually he's moving at pace, has to reach to the ground and pick up the ball which is also moving at pace, and then take a shot at a few slivers of wood at an acute angle under severe time pressure. They don't always hit the target but they can be extremely accurate.
(Cue gratuitous 1990s cricket clips featuring Jonty Rhodes below.)
What I'm trying to get at is: accurate throwing is a matter of chucking small dense items at stationary targets. A cricketer has a reasonable chance of hitting the stumps because they're not moving.
Does it make sense to say that thrown objects in D&D only hit if the target is stationary, i.e. surprised? Perhaps not - we've all been in the situation as a kid where your friend is about to throw something at you from a few paces away and you know that you're likely to be hit however much you might duck and dive. But it might make sense to come up with a thrown object house rule:
Thrown Objects House Rule
Standard ranges for thrown objects/weapons only apply where the target is stationary. Otherwise, the effective range of all thrown objects is 5 yards.
I'm not sure about this. Surely this is an issue of training and experience rather than whether the target is moving or not - i.e. cricket players have to hit the wicket to succeed so they train themselves to do so and get a lot of experience. Javelin throwers, on the other hand are judged on distance, not accuracy, so their training and technique is focused toward that goal. I'm sure if you spent the time training you could throw things accurately at moving targets. People in hunter gatherer cultures do so when hunting game with javelins, for instance.
ReplyDeleteThere is something to that but a javelin is literally in the air for a couple of seconds after it's thrown. It's trivially easy to step to one side if you're the target.
DeleteI think people in hunter gatherer cultures chuck spears at big animals whose brains can't get around the concept of thrown weapons. You can stand a short distance away from an antelope or whatever who won't perceive you as a threat, and then just throw a spear into its side and wait for it to die. I remember reading somewhere that this is theorized to be the reasons for the mass extinctions of mega fauna in the Americas and elsewhere after human arrival - it's just too easy.
History wants a word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum
DeletePilums were for mass-throwing in the middle of a battle, volley-style, not individual targeting in a small D&D-type fight.
DeleteYeah, but haven't you ever seen Troy?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr4K28Kl8hg
Personally, I think it's all right to keep the throwing ranges as given in the Basic book the same as listed...just don't increase throwing distances to yards in the outdoors (i.e. leave them as feet distance), unless some sort of mass combat is going on: a battalion of throwers arcing a huge mass of javelins into an a charging group of cavalry, for instance.
A strong man can put a spear through someone at 20 yards (60 feet), without any arc.
Yeah, that might be a better idea.
DeleteAlso, I have a real soft spot for Troy. I'm not sure why because objectively I think it's a terrible film, but it is undeniably fun.
DeleteGenerally, throwing weapons were used in war and combat as a pre-melee weapon. That is to say, they were something you either chucked at the enemy that was charging at you, or chucked at them before charging them. So I guess it makes sense if you want to reduce effective range to minimum, going by that. There have been specialized exceptions, but aren't there always?
ReplyDeleteAdding to that, maybe fighters can hurl a handy javelin or an axe before being engaged and still have a melee weapon handy when they get to melee distance? If they're in a good position to do so, I mean. Seems like that'd make them pretty useful.
I like that idea. The modern day equivalent of that is throwing your keys at somebody's face just before you get into fisticuffs with them.
DeleteI point out that a dodgeball court is 20 yards long.
ReplyDeleteMake it 10 yards then. ;)
DeleteAlso, in Canadian and American football, the quarterback is attempting to throw a ball, which weighs just under a pound, with the expectation of accurately putting it in the hands of a wide receiver at distances that can be over 60 yards.
DeleteThe receiver is running full tilt, and has a quite limited ability to change his speed and trajectory to correct for the QB's mistakes, even in a very long throw.
I don't think that's a good basis for comparison - the receiver is actually trying to catch the ball rather than dodge it!
DeleteYes, but its not like he's running all over the field to get it, the ball is generally expected to be in a pretty small window, reachable by both hands. If the receiver has to deviate from his designated pattern or extend himself to reach for the ball, he stands a much greater chance of missing, or fumbling, or being tackled. On a long play, the ball should drop over his shoulder (which shoulder is not optional, it depends on where he is on the field) into his waiting hands.
DeleteIf you want to simulate this, outstretch your hands, place your ring and pinky fingers together, and look over one shoulder as though you were expecting a ball. How much range of motion do you really have for your hands if you keep them in a area where you are not blocking the ball's trajectory with your head or your body? Not much.
Javelins were actually modified in the 80's to not fly as far, for safety reasons.
ReplyDelete