And compensation, a price in gold, was settled for the Geat Grendel had cruelly killed earlier— as he would have killed more, had not mindful God and one man's daring prevented that doom.
-Beowulf, trans. Seamus Heaney
Paging through the AD&D corpus and thinking about what it all has to say about religion, one is struck by two things. The first is the very high degree of syncretism on display. The creators invented many of their own species of (usually polytheistic) religious belief, and these are mixed in with real-world religions that are typically dead (so that, for instance, the Outer Planes are thought to be home to a variety of 'pantheons' such as the Greek, Chinese, Babylonian, Finnish, Egyptian and so on). And at the same time, of course, individual DMs who invent their own campaign settings merrily create their own systems of religion to sit alongside all of these others, also. If one stops to really think about it, this is suggestive of a vast galaxy of unrelated religions all existing together, and none of which being Truer than any of the others or being able to make a plausible universal Truth claim.
From a theological perspective the oddness of this is breezily waved aside in the source material - why wouldn't there be Finnish and orcish gods living alongside one another in the multiverse? - and, phenomenologically, the ordinary inhabitants of that multiverse see no nice distinctions: gods are gods and exert power in basically the same way, by granting spells to clerics and so on and so forth. And obviously at ground level most people, who never stray more than ten miles from their birthplace, have no conception of any of this anyway - their religion is their religion and that's that. Maybe they have some dim awareness that the local goblin tribe worships some specific deity which is different to their own, and maybe they even recognise that deity to have some real-world power and influence (and might even come to adopt it as their own if it is revealed to have more power and influence than the god their ancestors traditionally worship). But they're not worried about how it is supposed to all make sense.
The other thing that strikes one, however, is the shoe that doesn't drop - there is no explicit mention of Christianity (or Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or any other modern living religion) in canonical AD&D, for all that the religion is clearly latent within it. The cleric, who banishes undead and splashed around holy water while waving a holy symbol, obviously derives from basically Christian motifs and stereotypes about exorcists and inquisitors; many of the monsters - especially the undead - only really make sense as monsters when founded on a basis of Christian folk belief (which holds that coming back from the dead is intrinsically evil, as opposed to something that happens once a year when the ancestors come home for dinner, or whatever); the devils and demons clearly use the iconography of medieval Christian ideas about hell; and so on. It is almost as though there is an implied Christianity in the typical D&D world lurking in the background, (one could widen this out and say an implied Abrahamic faith), which is unable to fully express itself but which is hinted at at every turn.
I know very well why the creators of AD&D never inserted Jehovah, or Allah, or whatever, into their fictional multiverse - they didn't want to piss people off. But given the standard approach to theological matters (basically that any and every religion that one could think of can exist and has actual divine power), and taking that approach on its own terms, then surely the God of the Abrahamic faiths must also be subject to the same rationale on a 'sauce for the gander' basis. There is not, I mean to say, any principled reason as to why the Finnish or orcish (or whatever) god are 'real' within AD&D world, but the Christian God is not.
Following through on this idea would have interesting ramifications. First, it opens the door to a Beowulf-inflected syncretism, in which old pagan beliefs and pagan demons (Grendel, the dragon, the eotenas, the orcneas, etc.) exist, but alongside a Christianity which is somehow more True, or at least stands in opposition to it, Here, all of the furniture of AD&D would be as it is, but there would be some notion that it is set against an underlying theology which is of a different substance entirely - there is a God who is simply more good or indeed more powerful (for all that perhaps he refrains from acting, for mysterious reasons) than the rest.
And second, it could give rise to a campaign style that would feel as though it has more at stake. Obviously, this would be true for people who are themselves religious believers. But I think it is also true for atheists and agnostics who come from a Christian cultural background. Long, long ago I wrote a post comparing HP Lovecraft and MR James. As I put it then, there is something about MR James's horror, which assumes a kind of default Christian backdrop to events, that gives it a much greater sense of immediacy and resonance than HP Lovecraft's entirely invented mythos:
James's universe is one where things make a kind of sense, even though he was expert in keeping things hidden. The ghosts, spirits, demons who his protagonists encounter are products of Christianity; it's a vicious, vengeful, Old Testament Christianity, where sins are punished rather than forgiven, and it's a Christianity which comes more from the Apocrypha (The Testament of Solomon, Knights Templar, medieval Jewish magic) than from the Bible, but it's still a universe people from the Western world are familiar with. It's in many ways a quid pro quo universe - you get what's coming to you - but more importantly it's one that's horribly familiar, especially if you have had a church upbringing. Words like Baphomet, Satan, King Solomon, hell, the afterlife, altar, pew, prayer book, etc., have meanings to us which extend beyond the immediate story or what the writer can conjur up, and reach into our shared Judeo-Christian cultural past. This gives them a sense of weight, a sense of meaning, that made-up words like Hastur do not.
You don't have to be religious to appreciate that certain shared myths, stories and artefacts can take on a sense or feeling of the numinous, despite your own agnosticism: they get it not from the fact that they're true, or genuinely 'spiritual', but from something deeper - they've been around a long time, thousands of years in some cases, and when something is around a long time, it tends to grow roots. The Testament of Solomon is spellbinding because these are stories which have their roots in extreme antiquity, and something that old can't help but feel significant.
The point here is that one doesn't have to be a Christian to feel the viscerality of the notion that an orc or gnoll is a son of Cain rather than an evil humanoid - or indeed that a pit fiend is satanic rather than 'chaotic' or whatever else. One gets the concept of fighting a chaos demon; but one feels, in fighting a servant of Satan, that something weightier is going on. I think this would likely be truer across the piece, in a campaign setting which integrated Christian mythology (let's call it that for the sake of argument while sticking a pin in the question of metaphysics) in a more direct way.
Hinduism does turn up in AD&D - it has a complete chapter on the pantheon of the 'Indian Mythos' in the old first edition Deities and Demigods (p.75 in the Cthulhu/Melnibonean version of the book).
ReplyDeleteYeah, good point - it actually turns up in the Planescape book as well, On Hallowed Ground.
DeleteI just realised Deities and Demigods also has sections on Chinese and Japanese "Mythos" too, although they dance around any potential Buddhist influences.
DeleteD&D as written just doesn't do religion well. I alienated some friends from my version of 'alignment as religion' that I wrote up some years ago after reading about actual Greek and Roman and Norse religion, rather than just 'mythology'.
ReplyDeleteTwo things strike me about Lovecraft in response to what you say, but not against it:
1) Part of the horror in Lovecraft to me is the alienness of it, and the explicit rejection of meaning in a cosmos that doesn't care about you, or mean anything at all. It's a kind of atheistic horror--and in that way, still kind of echoes or relies on certain Christian or Abrahamaic assumptions that the world must make sense.
(But then one reads about the Elder Things having summer vacation houses in At the Mountains of Madness, and all the horror is broken by absurd bathos)
2) Lovecraft (and a lot of other earlier pulp writers) always struck me as rather well read, and though Hastur may not mean anything in particular, Lovecraft was good at generating plausible lists of particular names and place-names a la Herodotus, Homer, or even Milton (like the lists in Paradise Lost). I was recently just beginning a read of Thucydides' Peloponnesian War, and breezing over the density of unfamiliar names and place-names. My impression of Lovecraft was that he was good at emulating this kind of density, and thus creates an air of 'authenticity' to the illusions he spins--a quite different kind of authenticity than the weightiness of 'the clan of Cain' or 'servants of Satan'.
Neither point is intended to stand against what you've written here, which I enjoyed reading. Just extra, tangential thoughts.
"(But then one reads about the Elder Things having summer vacation houses in At the Mountains of Madness, and all the horror is broken by absurd bathos)"
DeleteThe elder things were men, after all.
Yes, some fictional writers are good at creating this kind of pseudo-authenticity. There is a real trick to it. For all that I love Vance, for example, he lacks this ability.
DeleteAs the 10th level AD&D cleric could sing to the tune of That's Life, "I've been a lama, a bishop, a curate, an adept, a pa-tri-arch..."
ReplyDeleteLovecraft's brand of horror is (Derleth's mistaken insistence notwithstanding) explicitly atheistic and he mostly eschewed such religious allusion, but I do agree about the whole borrowing from cultural heritage to make the punch sink in. In fantasy in general really.
ReplyDeleteThe Broken Sword is a good example to me of the kind of fantasy that thrives on a real-word inspired mythos and makes me think maybe I can hew my DnD fantasy closer to that without going full Ars Magica.
In general, I am fascinated by Poul Anderson's ability to spin real-world mythology into his fantasy mythos, subordinating both pre-christian gods and Christianity as (perhaps hierarchical?) divine expressions of Law.
Which allows him to do more with them than he might otherwise, such as employ a kind of parallel christianity in the otherworld in Three Hearts & Three Lions to good effect, as well as subsume both Christianity and Islam as different expressions of a tangible force of Law.
The tension between the old gods and the new White God in Broken Sword is also fascinating to me, as an example of forces of Law with divergent goals in the mortal world.
Will have to properly read Anderson.
DeleteSome trivia.
ReplyDeleteThe only mentions of any specific gods or religions, invented or historical, in the "core" three AD&D books are the following:
- Tritons, in the MM, are said to serve the god Triton.
- Gary, in an aside in the DMG, mentions that a handful of Norse gods have appeared in his campaign.
- The Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar, in the DMG, is said to have been bestowed by the "gods of the Paynims".
- Another relic was made by "the goddess of volcanic activity, Joramy".
All other references to gods are generic, usually in the plural. There are a couple mentions of "gods of chaotic good" or one of the other alignments.
As you point out, there are crosses, holy water, and devils with names from the Dictionnaire Infernal. Vampires in the MM are specifically noted as recoiling from a cross (or other lawful good holy symbol) "regardless of [their] religious background". In the PH is a table of outer Planes which includes Acheron/Elysium/Hades/Olympus/Tarterus (Greek), Gladsheim (Norse), Nirvana (Buddhist/Hindu), and Gehenna/Nine Hells/Pandemonium/Seven Heavens (God of Abraham). There's also a mention in the PH of an objective to "find and destroy an altar to an alien god", which is nothing specific but does suggest a certain quasi-monotheism.
1979 was before my time but I have a partial set of DM notes written for AD&D from that year; I knew the author and I happen to know they were an atheist. The only religious references in it are Christian - the marketplace sells fake pieces of the One True Cross, and the demon-worshippers have a mural of the Descent of Lucifer.
Very interesting trivia. A lot of the religious stuff seems to have actually been layered on through the course of 2nd edition.
DeleteAs someone who has put still believed in Gods in his campaign settings, I can concur that it does add much more weight to things
ReplyDeleteThere's a OSR Adventure called Unholy Land, which is set during the Nativity. The themes of the Nativity are stressed in the adventure (baby Jesus only has one hit point), I ran it for my group and the weight of what was happening hit them immensely.
Unholy Land makes for a great Christmas adventure.
I have often wanted to run a campaign set during the time of the Book of Judges.
DeleteIn Original D&D there was no "holy symbol" in the equipment list, but "cross". There are several illustrations from this period corroborating the Cleric class waving a cross.
ReplyDeleteIn AD&D 1 the "holy symbol" enters and the cross leaves. But there is the option of Rosario in the equipment list. How religion uses a Rosario?
In AD&D 2, in the description the Cleric class is expressly described as similar to the religious military orders of the Middle Ages (only The Christian Church had religious military orders).
St. Cuthbert is a Saint from Catholic and Orthodox traditions.
The original divine spells and turn undead clearly draw from the history of miracles and the way christianity used to be portrayed in pop culture.
Plus the fact that the gods and powers portrayed in the books have hit points, indicating that theologically they are creatures and can be destroyed, which does not apply to God.
In my campaign, the Cleric is a member of a Religious Military Order of the Church, which is suppressed in a world controlled by neopagan wizards (like Jedi x Siths).
But there are several details that make D&D compatible with Christianity, based on reading the scriptures. This subject is covered brilliantly on Father Dave's blog, such as this post:
https://bloodofprokopius.blogspot.com/2021/06/scripture-and-deities-demi-gods.html
Yeah, I like that blog a lot.
DeleteTrivia: St Cuthbert is the patron saint of my local area, and his tomb is in the local cathedral.
This is a blessed trivia.
DeleteGreat post— I want to just mention one of my favorite 3e D&D books that does (almost) exactly what you suggest, Scott Bennie’s “Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era”. It is a little half-baked around the edges, but supported a PDF zin, “Targim” (iirc) for a few years and me and my friends loved it. - Jason Bradley Thompson
ReplyDeleteNice! I'll check that one out.
DeleteIn Places Deep's Nightwick Abbey/Darklands settings does a good job of juxtaposing pagan and pseudo Abrahamic religion
ReplyDeletehttp://inplacesdeep.blogspot.com/search/label/Nightwick%20Abbey
Gavin Norman's Dolmenwood, does something similar.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Nightwick Abbey. Good call.
Deletekind of inherently disagree with this, just bc there's large swaths of the population to whom Christianity just feels a bit silly, diluted by parody and pop-culture goofiness. fighting a "satanic" pit fiend may convey gravitas to you, but it conveys something very different to someone whose idea of Satan is informed by South Park, Kevin Smith's Dogma, whatever. hell, the main reference point for "Christian mythology" for countless people these days is probably Good Omens, which features a star-crossed bromance between an angel and devil positively primed for Tumblr fanfiction...
ReplyDeleteYes, this is a valid point. You've got to know the cultural context of your group...
DeleteThe internet's idea of "Christianity" sits somewhere between a) silly and b) anathema to all that is woke and true, but IMO that view is heavily influenced by late 20th C U.S. evangelical Christianity. The God Network is quite far removed from the memetic construct that is a foundational part of Western culture, with its influence on vast swathes of art, architecture, ethics, philosophy etc etc etc. That's the Christianity that has gravitas, even in this time of great unbelief. You don't need to be a believer to feel in your bones the awe of a properly old cathedral, or the power of Bach live. The "stakes" this post references, I think, speaks to a reverence for, and connection to, that deep culture.
DeleteGood Omens et al work because of that connection, not in spite of it, but I do think that's changing. More and more cultural output feels disconnected from that deep culture, engaging with it in the same way that most anime does; with names and iconography, but an alien comprehension of the deeper material.
This might not apply to 100% of humanity, but even most of us atheists have the wiring to feel the sublime, whether its communicated by art or nature. Whether that implies a grander plan or a grander cosmos has more to do with how our upbringing rationalises that physiological "sublime" sense.
At its best, the Lovecraft's mythos touches a nerve that activates a mirror sense, of the dark sublime. In Hellboy, Mike Mignola does a cracking job of depicting this, and of smushing together Judeo-Christian and Cthulhu mythologies.
"It is almost as though there is an implied Christianity in the typical D&D world lurking in the background, (one could widen this out and say an implied Abrahamic faith), which is unable to fully express itself but which is hinted at at every turn."
ReplyDeleteJust as all of creation! In the oldest traditions of Christian faith, it is believed that all gods being worshipped in past and present are principalities of the "heavens" (meaning spiritual realms, good and evil). These gods have their own missions and intents, some are on the side of Yahweh, others seek their own ends.
A thorough reading of the early parts of Genesis and the book of Enoch will open your eyes to the ancient views of the "multiverse" so-to-speak. In ancient Christianity, the idea of compartmentalizing every religion to its own "mythos" doesn't make any sense. Every story echos some reality of the cosmic story. Ultimately you need to be on the side of God, the source of all life, but that doesn't mean that all the other entities that show up in theme (and by name) in ancient history are disconnected from one another.
Hopefully that didn't come off as incoherent rambling, but I think you are absolutely correct in your thoughts. Hopefully I was able to illustrate WHY this is true - because it is an echo of our metaphysical reality outside of the game world, too!
There is a bit of this in The Chronicles of Narnia, for sure.
DeleteI've long had some ideas for a more Fairy Tale-inspired D&D setting and a lot of old fairy tales have a lot of explicit Christianity alongside other stuff in way that's interesting but not completely dominant so that could be a good model. Some random thoughts on it:
ReplyDelete-Would like to make a hexcrawl in which different hexes have different levels of lawful (Christian), chaotic (Satanic), or neutral (Fey) influence with the alignment and the strength of the alignment having concrete effects on how magic works and other things. For example animals only talk in fey-influenced hexes. PCs could do various things to influence the alignment of hexes, which would also impact player who rule hexes (Fisher King magic). For this neutral would be it's own thing, not just mid-way along the lawful/chaotic spectrum.
-Sacraments/rituals would have specific mechanical effects. Especially burial would be important. Just leave bodies strewn around after a battle is a good way of getting undead coming after you. But burying them takes time and you might not have time...
-D&D monsters specifically as incarnations of the Seven Deadly Sins. Dragons are greed etc. etc. with that explaining how they come about and fitting into how to get rid of them.
These are really great ideas! You should do something with them.
DeleteI remember when Deities & Demigods came out, what a mind-blowing book it was, being introduced to so many different pantheons. I also remember when I returned to D&D 30 years thinking what a shitshow mashup it all seemed (a glorious shitshow mashup, but still...) and wondering what varieties of offence it had managed to cause over the years. Sure, leaving the Abrahamic religions out probably placated the most easily offended, but I recently pissed off an elderly Latvian lady when I described to her Mumufication (the practice of firing 23g of a person's remains into a brick, to be built into a pyramid along with 35,000 other bricks). Turns out she was a real-life worshipper of Anubis. I can't help wondering what she'd make of it all.
ReplyDeleteWho - Anubis or the Latvian lady? ;)
DeleteTrue about syncretism. Not true about not being Hinduistic or Abrahamic religions there. ;)) Old Legends and Lore books contained both for people interested in incorporating them - and many people did, with mixed success. Of course, it's probably better to use dedicated systems for those - such as Pendragon, or even Dogs of the Vineyard among newer ones. ;)
ReplyDeleteMike
I'll throw in a Christian viewpoint -- We tried this at my table, which is mostly Catholics from the parish. It wasn't fun, for us anyway. It felt uncomfortable and blasphemous. Imagine playing D&D but your character is your actual grandfather in your actual grandfather's world. We ended up tacitly euphemizing the whole thing, so instead of followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, we were "servants of the Holy Light" or something like that.
ReplyDeleteAnd that, I think, is the true implicit-Christianity -- the original makers' latent Christianity let them goof around with pagan pantheons but not the actual Christian theology that they either used-to or still-did hold to be true or at least worthy of not being played with.
Fair enough. I can see why creating a bit of distance through use of allegory would help. I should make clear that I am a Christian as well!
Delete