I watched Heat on TV last night, because it was on, and because even though I could almost quote the script word for word because I've seen it that many times, the central gun battle is still worth it. It struck me while watching it that, actually, it is very much the epitome of what I imagine a Cyberpunk 2020 game to be like (except without the internet and cyberpsychos, obviously); Bladerunner may be a good film but game I run are never like that - they match the grimy technoir of Heat much more.
That made me think of Blood Meridian, which I've always thought of as being, in its description of the Glanton Gang, the closest representation in fiction of what a typical group of D&D adventurers is actually like - compulsively violent, amoral, socially untied, and ultimately aimless - and also, in its almost random collection of incidents, the closest representation in fiction to how a wilderness/hexcrawl D&D adventure shakes out in practice. This despite the fact that it is a Western; there is no fantasy book that captures the feel of D&D like Blood Meridian.
That then made me think of James Clavell's masterpiece Noble House, the book which more than any other represents the Platonic form of the "web of human relationships" style game in my mind: everybody knows everybody, everybody has an agenda, everybody is plotting. The story is the people. If you could plan the perfect Amber Diceless game, it would be something like that.
And that made me think of Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets and The Corner, which say so much to me about what an urban dark fantasy game should be like despite being works of real-world documentary reportage.
And that made me think that much of the books I have read and films I have seen which have influenced my gaming preferences are often nothing to do with the fantasy genre. In fact, if I was going to provide a list of fantasy books which had influenced my gaming, I'd be much more likely to put various Fighting Fantasy books up there rather than anything actually literary in nature. I'm not sure what that says about me, but it is an interesting thought: was Gygax's Appendix N too restrictive? Should he have roamed elsewhere for works to include?
I'd also put the Fighting Fantasy books on my Appendix N list, and I'm struggling to think of what "proper" literature I'd include. The Hobbit, probably, and the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories, but that would be about as close as I'd get to the generally accepted N-list. I'm more likely to go looking at films, comics and video games if I'm honest.
ReplyDeleteI must read Noble House one day. Your recommendation of Blood Meridian almost makes me want to read that, except I've disliked everything I've read by McCarthy.
I think Blood Meridian is one of those books you have to read. Even if you end up hating it, you'll be glad you read it.
DeleteRighto, I'll chase a copy!
DeleteI'd say Blood Meridian is really different than the rest of McCarthy. It's more wandering seemingly without plot, less didactic and the imagery is better (albeit often horrible). I don't like much McCarthy, but I really liked Blood Meridian.
DeleteAs for Westerns, Firefly was the 'Western' that made me turn to my wife and say, 'that's a D&D party having D&D adventures'.
ReplyDeleteEven if we did have to fastforward past the theme song.
Firefly is one of those things, like Farscape and Doctor Who, which I irrationally despise despite never having watched it. Is it really all that good?
DeleteDecent. It was more the 'diverse group of explorers, driven by self-interest (but with a moral streak), with a different adventure every week, all in the relatively lawless aftermath of a great war' set-up that reminded me of D&D, than the quality of the programme.
DeleteI've arbitrarily avoiding Firefly for years too - none of the snippets I saw here and there grabbed me. And then my wife mandated that I at least watch the first episode or two end-to-end before continuing this avoidance.
DeleteI'm all aboard the Firefly bandwagon now and kinda see where the fans are coming from. It's the show that launched a thousand ships (into RPG campaigns).
Maybe I need to cease my religious avoidance of Dr Who as well.
Firefly and Doctor Who are very different shows, but they are both notable to me for being shows that I love that have a significant fraction of their fanbases that drive me insane.
DeleteDon't let the crazy fans keep you away from them, though. Both should not be missed (although I suspect Firefly would make much better gaming fodder - the plots of Doctor Who are pretty quintessential "GM fiat").
Firefly is a reskinned Cowboy Bebop, with the noirish stuff swapped out for westernish stuff.
DeleteI thought it was okay, but the fanbase is a bit rabid.
Firefly's a bit overrated. Production values are a little amateurish--guess it is hard to make good scifi with a cable TV budget. It has charming moments, but overall a disappointment.
DeleteCowboy Bebop, now that had some Cyberpunky gunbattles!
I'm similar, I rarely get much influence from fantasy stories. If I'm not running published stuff, my influences tend to be songs, films, and TV shows - not fantasy films or TV shows, generally. The last really 'literary' campaign I did was a PBEM back in the mid '90s that was influenced by Leiber & Moorcock short stories. My most recent homebrew campaign (Southlands) was influenced primarily by Heavy Metal magazine & music, especially Iron Maiden, and Skinhead music for the 'bad guys' - although the real message of the campaign was that in ethnic warfare there are no 'good guys'.
ReplyDeleteThey want the wild west, with swords.
ReplyDeletehttp://dreamsinthelichhouse.blogspot.com/2012/11/d-is-search-for-american-dream.html
I raise you this.
Deletecompulsively violent, amoral, socially untied, and ultimately aimless
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, I've never really seen this. And I'm a very laissez faire anything goes ref when it comes to morality. Basically, I don't see myself as there to judge character actions (and when I do include alignment, it's not about the morality of choices).
Despite all that, most PCs I have seen are played as the opposite of amoral, socially untied, and aimless (and this includes the many FLAILSNAILS games I have played with virtual acquaintances, that I might expect to skew towards your adjectives). Just for one example, in Wampus Country, the Rat House Bastards are primarily about trying to be the law, and getting one of the PCs recognized as the sheriff. Pretty much every online game I have played has been similar. HMS Apollyon is all about negotiating with dungeon factions when possible, and reclaiming parts of the ship from the restless dead (civilizing the wildness, really).
In my own OD&D game, despite zero incentives toward this, the party has set up shop in the starting town, and made social climbing and defending the town seemingly the lynchpin of their adventures. They have on numerous occasions made choices opposite to the murder hobo stereotype. I have no central plot (at least, not one built around the PCs), so this is 100% on them.
I will give you compulsively violent though. Players do love their combat.
In terms of the kind of influences you have mentioned, I rate The Walking Dead as probably "most D&D-like" of TV shows (and perhaps even within the set of other media too, though I would have to think more on that).
ReplyDeleteI was just considering "The Walking Dead" is an excellent example of what "sandbox" means in RPG terms. New episode begins now!
DeleteMy appendix N has more than a few non Fantasy choices. Its good to diversify.
ReplyDeleteOf the current TV, if you want a good example of what an adventurer band might be like (or a pack of werewolves) Sons of Anarchy is good choice.
Its D&D like in its own way. Though the Sons have a base and have to deal with an established legal system, they are pretty much lawless reavers in many ways.
My D&D is influenced far more by Silver Age Superhero Comics and Japanese Anime and Manga than it is by any fantasy novel ever written. There is also a pretty solid Star Trek feel to it if you, as a player, let yourself see it.
ReplyDeleteI often bank on the fact that most people don't realize this is what is happening while they're playing in my games. They focus on the D&D-ish trappings and completely miss the fact that they just finished running through the animated film Arion as members of a medieval Legion of Superheroes.
This one? Yeah, I guess Suits + Sunglasses + Assault Rifles is pretty Cyberpunk...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL9fnVtz_lc
A few things to add to the conversation, I guess:
ReplyDeleteI'm a big fan of stealing magic items and set pieces from older fiction such as The Picture of Dorian Grey or Borges' work.
I love the "oh geez, this can't end well" plot and dirty flavor of Heart of Darkness.
Speaking of which, war films and novels really get me going as well. Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, the war scenes from Book of the New Sun (oh hell, all of Book of the New Sun).
And for an online resource, BLDGBLOG is by far my favorite gaming resource that isn't a gaming resource.
I would suggest Buffy the Vampire slayer as a solid example of a campaign. Having said that Batman isn't bad either.
ReplyDelete