Wednesday, 1 May 2024

Why the dearth of 'other world' campaigns?

JRR Tolkien was a crucial 'break' between two conceptions of the fantasy genre. Before him, most (though not all) fantastical tales either involved people in the real world, 'our' world, travelling to other realities, or situations in which the real world was merged with such other realities. After him, fantasy worlds took on independent existences: they were largely complete, enclosed creations - worlds in their own right, with no necessary connection to our own.

This was the major influence exerted by JRR Tolkien over D&D, and most subsequent fantasy role playing games. D&D does not involve adventurers from our world straying into others. Its campaign settings - whether official ones or the amateur creations of DMs - are discrete, and the PCs are 'native' to them. And this is true even of multiworld or multiplanar settings like Spelljammer or Planescape; the PCs in such settings are from the broad canvas setting as such, rather than our own.

When I was young, I much preferred this state of affairs - I thought fantasy fiction in which an 'ordinary boy' (or whatever) from 29 Acacia Avenue accidentally wanders into Dragonland were the absolute pits. As I've got older, I've come to understand the appeal. And it has come to mystify me as to why nobody has ever really successfully 'OSRized' a particular concept which makes complete sense when you think about the history of fantasy fiction - a campaign archetype in which people from the real world go adventuring in a realm of fantasy and thereby gain improvements and advantages which they can deploy when they come back. No doubt such games have existed in the history of RPGs, but I have not heard of one that has sounded remotely interesting - and certainly not in recent years. 

The Chronicles of Narnia are the obvious model for this: the PCs are ordinary children who gain access to portals to another world where they have adventures, and as a result of having these adventures, their real lives become powerfully enriched when they return. Another example would be Stephen Lawhead's Song of Albion series, an (excellent, by the way) series in which an American academic accidentally strays into a mythologised bronze age Britain and comes back transformed into a muscle-bound nobleman irresistible to women - wish fulfilment, of course, but charming wish fulfilment for all that. Slightly different is the Chronicles of Amber, wherein an ostensibly 'normal' man discovers he is actually a demigod and that there is an infinite other reality out there for him to explore. And then, of course, there's Mythago Wood and its sequels, in which Big Important Things happen to people in the wood, and they come out forever changed.

The archetypal iteration of such a campaign would I suppose be the one in which real world people discover a portal to another realm (the Abyss, Valinor, Middle Earth, whatever), amass treasure and magic, and bring it back to sell and gain power. Kind of like what I was planning with There is Therefore a Strange Land, come to think of it... With the right kind of systematisation for gaining XP and level advancement, and a compelling setting - I think it is important for such a campaign setting to succeed that the PCs are part of a secret subculture - this could be an important addition to the OSR canon. 

60 comments:

  1. "Other world" fantasy is huge in anime right now, where it's known by the Japanese term "isekai." I think the sense is that the protagonist must be someone just like us to be relatable and serve as a viewer stand-in, and we can discover the fantasy world along with them.

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    1. There's a reason why so many fantasy books use the format.

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  2. This was kind of an element in the GURPS Infinite Worlds setting.

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    1. There's always a GURPS book....

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    2. And on that matter, the standard setting for GURPS Fantasy, Yrth, is entirely built on that premisse. Not only campaigns where the PC's are snatched from our reality are very common on that setting (even meriting a few paragraphs on how to model stats after the player personalities. And get into fights in the process), but the very backdrop of the setting is one big mass 'other world' transportation: all humans arrived to Yrth from Earth, at different epochs, "sargasso dimension" style. There are templar knights, sarracen corsairs and rabbis running arround to an extent that the "inner secret lore" of the setting, coveted by elder mages and megalomaniacal rulers, is actually our history at about the 12th century. There again, this is GURPS, wich means that its a treasure trove of minable ideas for other games...But I never seen anyone run Yrth sucessfuly ever. If anyone arround here did so, please tell me - it could be amazing.

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    3. Interesting. I'd vaguely heard of it but GURPS was never really my bag.

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    4. My current D&D campaign are based in the Stormbane concept stoled from Yrth. The Christendom is Karameikos and meet other real cultures in The Know World. Yes, the lore of Mystara was obliterated in order to do that.

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  3. Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe is badass.

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    1. Yes - I wrote a lot about that book around this time last year.

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  4. Well, the best-known mass-market expression of isekai (the Japanese term of art for a real-world hero in a fantasy world) in roleplaying was the D&D cartoon series. In obscurer corners you have the Andre Norton novel Quag Keep -- in which a group of gamers fall into their own campaign world, loosely based on Greyhawk -- and hints in early campaigns that some NPCs might come from the prime reality.

    My guess is that LOTR, Fafhrd, Moorcock's novels, and other popular series by the early 70's had established the dominance of self-contained fantasy worlds with groups of cooperating heroes, while the best-known isekai hailed from earlier times and typically had solo protagonists.

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    1. Yes, good point about the old D&D cartoons. I'd forgotten about those.

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    2. And then I just remembered the very influential (on D&D) Compleat Enchanter series, which are nothing but isekai. Maybe a broader picture is that D&D has taken a variety of settings but feels free to swap in a protagonist set that can be judged by rules ultimately deriving from medieval fantasy wargaming (or, as I argued here, from a certain kind of 19th century adventure fiction: https://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2012/10/thangobrind-we-will-avenge-you.html).

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    3. I can't stand the Compleat Enchanter. I've tried a couple of times but just cannot get into it.

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    4. IIRC, the D&D cartoon did, in fact, get its own book with 3e, as part of a deluxe DVD release. (I have no idea if it handled character generation for PCs from "our world.")

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  5. I agree that this framework seems like a natural one for RPGs. There's an uncomfortable disconnect between players and the setting, especially a setting dictated by the DM (instead of some kind of Microscope-style storygame collaborative setting creation). As a player, you're asked to play the role of a native of the setting despite having no prior exposure to the setting. The more all-out the DM goes with the worldbuilding, the more alienated the players become. Which is why a game ostensibly about fantastical beings (elves, wizards) set in a fantastical world often ends up recreating the social norms and conventions of a wealthy Anglosphere 21st-century city. Better to embrace that inevitable starting point and then gradually immerse the players in a world that is alien, not just to the players, but also to the characters they're tasked with portraying.

    (Add to your list of fictional precedents: Barsoom, naturally.)

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    1. I agree. I think it could work really well, done properly.

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    2. I think this might be precisely why it's less popular in RPGs than in fantasy at a large, because people want to "be" elves and wizards, not the same regular folks they are every day (even if those elves and wizards often do end up behaving a lot like regular folks).

      In RPGs, there's also the additional question of whether you're playing yourself in a fantasy world (which loses the "it's not me, it's my character" remove that's useful and comfortable for all sorts of reasons), or whether there's this weird extra level of indirection where you're a regular person playing a regular person in a fantasy world.

      I do agree it could work well, done properly!

      I've found it interesting that some games use this not as the encompassing game concept, but as a specific character type. Like, one player players an elf, another plays a wizard, and a third one plays the regular person thrust into the elf's and wizard's world.

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    3. This is an important point and the reply deserves a proper post.

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  6. Would love to see There is Therefore a Strange land reach completion! :-)

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  7. Dave Wesley said that players played themselves as characters for the first sessions of Blackmoor, having been transported to that world in a plane crash. He implied that the shift towards PCs being natives of the setting was that players didn't want "themselves" to die at the hands of the dice.

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    1. My introduction to d&d was playing with a group organized by the friendly local hobby store. They were all older and old hands at it an helped me role up my first character who even doing straight 3d6 qualified as a palidin! They insisted I give him my name and act like the character was me transported into the game. Thought that's how everyone played until I met another group in high school, and my character creation assumptions were met with shock and ridicule.

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    2. It's amazing to me that players didn't want 'themselves' dying. I think that would be hilarious.

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    3. Yes, I remember more than one article in Dragon and other fan outlets on how you could play "yourself" as a character, despite gamers being prone to deficits in STR, DEX and often CHA... for example, the one described here: https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-and-dragons-realistic-character-stats/

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    4. Wesley wasn't at the original sessions but heard about it later so I checked Playing at the World. Page 66 confirms that the conceit of the game was that Arneson's plane had crashed during a family trip to Sweden he really took, so the players charter a plane to rescue him which also crashes and they are attacked by giants. However Peterson says the problem of themselves dying was well known from Napoleonic play and "could be dealt with in any number of ways, though most often the successor could barely be differentiated from the predecessor: when David I of Denmark, played by David Fant, died in a naval battle off Malmo, the investiture of David III of Denmark followed hard upon."

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    5. To be honest that is just a more honest way of doing what I have always found happens anyway - everybody kind of plays the same PC over and over again in a different form, like the Eternal Champion.

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  8. In Lotr we have the hobbits as mundane types who explore a fantasy world. What would the character classes be in such a game, where the heroes are basically outsiders?

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    1. Good question. I think they would start out at 0-level and then would, through play, take on classes/roles?

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    2. (Sorry for keeping returning to this. I've been travelling, so I'm returning to my usual online reading.)

      I suppose there are parallels in Dungeon Crawl Classics' "funnels"? (And now I think of this, I'm imagining a scenario in which various "mundane-world" PCs have the option to escape into the portal fantasy world. Possibly less lethal than the DCC ones, though -- PCs who fail end up stuck in lives as chartered accountants, archivists and librarians [I am one myself FWIW], academics, quantity surveyors, etc.)

      Didn't Villains & Vigilantes have one character generation system in which players statted themselves up and then played through/ described an "Origin Story" for their superheroic identity?

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  9. That's pretty much the premise of The Magical Land of Yeld RPG. Also, Diogo Nogueira's Lost in the Fantasy world is a minimalist attempt to capture the feel of the D&D cartoon.

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  10. Love the shout out for Lawhead. Read a good chunk of his Penndragon Cylcle as an American studying in Cambridge in the 90s. An American, in England, reading a book about King Arthur, written by an American, is pretty much the most American thing ever. As a Christian I find most all "Christian" fiction dreck. Tolkien, Lewis and Lawhead are happy exceptions, even if they are not always sublime, at least they are never patronizing or shallow.

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    1. Yes, agreed - and certainly in the Song of Albion books the Christian themes are basically invisible to a non-Christian (I think).

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    2. Lawhead says as much in this interview that I thought was interesting if you haven't seen it : https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/anvil/28-3_lawhead.pdf

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    3. Nice - thanks for the link.

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  11. The first version of Middle-earth mythology was very similar: in The Book of Lost Tales Eriol, the Mariner sales from England to Tol Eressëa.

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    1. Yes, I have tried reading the old History of Middle Earth series. Tough going.

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  12. The Die RPG by Kieran Gillen is an interesting take on this concept, based on the comic by the same name. The game is about a group of RPG players that get sucked into their game world and become their RPG characters. It starts with each real player designing their fictional player, then the GM assigns the fictional players their RPG classes, then off you go. The idea is the RPG world the fictional players are stuck in will force them to confront their real life problems / issue in a fantastical form.

    I should say I haven't actually played it, only read it, but it looks like it's trying to do something interesting that will really appeal to the right group.

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    1. This I think is what 'other world' fiction ought to really be about - being faced with/confronted with one's flaws, etc., in a different setting and thus overcoming them. Becoming a new person.

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  13. How about Burroughs? I reckon Jon Carter and to a lesser extent Tarzan fit into this catagory. I also have a feeling that Isekai might have its roots in Carters adventures through contact with books read by American soldiers.

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  14. How about Burroughs? I reckon Jon Carter and to a lesser extent Tarzan fit into this category. I also have a feeling that isekai might have its roots in Carters adventures through contact with books read by post war American service men.

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  15. What about Burroughs? I reckon John Carter and to a lesser extent Tarzan fit into this category. I also have this feeling that isekai might have its roots in Carters adventures through contact with books read by post war American service men.

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  16. I agree the relative lack of this is weird, but I think it might be because in a RPG, there’s already the ‘real world’ at the table, embodied in a meta sense by the players themselves controlling their characters, if that makes sense. There’s already two layers of reality by the nature of the medium. But I do think that the theme of real-world people literally entering a fantasy world (even if their bodies and minds are mystically transformed in the process) is a fruitful area to explore in gaming. Which is why I’m doing it in my Dreamland RPG, of course! ;) - Jason Bradley Thompson

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    1. Yes, there might be something to this - although I do think a kind of unreflective Tolkienism is at the heart of it.

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    2. I like this explanation. And of course, Randolph Carter's adventure is an example of the genre, with strong if hidden links to the Barsoom adventures.

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  17. Just came to mention isekai again, which is massively popular in Japan. Light Novels/Manga/Anime have been using this for at least the last 10 years where someone is transported to a secondary fantasy world (usually by being reincarnated after dying in the real world while saving someone).

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  18. I came here to mention Dreamlands settings -- but Jason beat me to the punch. Of course, we also have the Chaosium CoC Dreamlands supplement from the 1980s. (And, IIRC, isn't Sandy Peterson on record as saying that CoC started as a Dreamlands RPG?)

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  19. Right. I have a lot of thoughts about this topic but I'm going to limit myself to posting a few links here before I head out for work.

    DnD 3e/ OGL of course had FFG's "Grimm" setting in which children from our world entered a twisted version of western fairy tales. My copy's in storage but character classes ("archetypes") included: The Bully, The Dreamer, The Jock, The Nerd, The Normal Kid, The Outcast, and The Popular Kid. It received a slim version as part of the Horizons series and a bulked up standalone RPG.

    James Maliszewski actually took a pass at creating a "Stranger" character class for Labyrinth Lord, way back in 2009: https://grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/08/grognards-grimoire-stranger.html

    Dungeon #14 (vol. 3, no. 2, Nov/Dec 1988) includes "A Question of Balance" in which Forgotten Realms PCs save (hopefully) Simon Weems, "an insurance salesman from a place known as Lake Geneva in Wisconsin," from being burned at the stake.

    And that's it, for now. Apologies for the weird listiness of it all.

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    1. No, thanks - that's treally interesting. I had no idea about that old Grognardia post.

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    2. Wow— how had I never heard of Grimm?? Thank you so much for pointing this out! What a cool game! - Jason Bradley Thompson

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  20. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series, or L. Sprague de Camp's "Lest Darkness Fall."

    This style of fiction, originated by ERB, had quite the resurgence when D&D became a hit. "Guardians" was just one of many such novels, most of which never gained traction like "Guardians." A cursory examination of used book store shelves usually turns up at least two or three evey visit.

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    1. Some of these things are I think nation/region specific. I've never even heard of the Joel Rosenberg books.

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    2. Let's not forget Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, which inspired De Camp's novel and many more besides (Turtledove's The Guns of the South, Flint's 1632, etc.)

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  21. So I'm at a friend's place, and their kid is watching the new The Super Mario Brothers movie.

    And it is totally an Other World Campaign.

    Mario, a normal guy from our Nirmal world, goes to another world, meets a princess, and must save her and her world from a terrible evil that is served by monstrous, inhuman beings.

    Never realized Mario is essentially a modern John Carter...

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    1. Yeah, it's funny how many old video games are variants on that theme.

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  22. I cannot recommend enough, THE FIONAVAR TAPESTRY by Guy Gavriel Kay. It starts in modern day Toronto of all places before sending the main characters to the land of Fionavar, a land that is beautifully weaved with Celtic mythological and Arthurian themes as inspiration for its own mythology. It is best described I think as the best of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis - high fantasy with a modern human experience.

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  23. Thanks to Jeff Rients, I read AE Silas's "The Panorama Egg" a few years ago. It's ... okay. Interesting, even. https://jrients.blogspot.com/2018/10/hesheitke.html

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  24. You mention portals in your account of Narnia and, as it happens, "portal fantasy" seems to be a generally used term (I first heard it on the "Our Opinions Are Correct" podcast):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy#Portal_fantasy

    And here's a list of examples!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Portal_fantasy

    (To confuse things, someone has apparently published a computer game with that title.)

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